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1184 THE CIRCUIT COURT OF SHELBY COUNTY, TENNESSEE THIRTIETH JUDICIAL DISTRICT AT MEMPHIS _______________________________________________ CORETTA SCOTT KING, MARTIN LUTHER KING, III, BERNICE KING, DEXTER SCOTT KING and YOLANDA KING, Plaintiffs, Vs. Case No. 97242-4 T.D. LOYD JOWERS and OTHER UNKNOWN CO-CONSPIRATORS, Defendants. _______________________________________________ PROCEEDINGS November 30th, 1999 VOLUME IX _______________________________________________ Before the Honorable James E. Swearengen, Division 4, Judge presiding. _______________________________________________ DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD COURT REPORTERS Suite 2200, One Commerce Square Memphis, Tennessee 38103 (901) 529-1999 DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 1185 - APPEARANCES - For the Plaintiffs: MR. WILLIAM PEPPER Attorney at Law 575 Madison Avenue, Suite 1006 New York, New York 10022 (212) 605-0515
For the Defendant:
MR. LEWIS K. GARRISON, Sr. Attorney at Law 100 North Main Street, Suite 1025 Memphis, Tennessee 38103 (901) 527-6445
Reported by:
MS. MARGIE J. ROUTHEAUX Registered Professional Reporter Daniel, Dillinger, Dominski, Richberger & Weatherford 2200 One Commerce Square Memphis, Tennessee 38103
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 1186
- INDEX -
WITNESS: PAGE NUMBER
JACK KERSHAW
Direct Examination By Mr. Pepper --------------- 1188
Cross-Examination By Mr. Garrison ------------- 1196
JACK TERREL (By Video)
Direct Examination By Mr. Pepper --------------- 1198
LOUIS WARD
Direct Examination By Mr. Pepper --------------- 1234
Cross-Examination By Mr. Garrison ------------- 1256
Redirect Examination By Mr. Pepper --------------- 1257
RAYMOND KOHLMAN
Direct Examination By Mr. Pepper --------------- 1258
EARL CALDWELL (By Video)
Direct Examination By Mr. Pepper --------------- 1265
Cross-Examination By Mr. Ewing ---------------- 1267
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 1187
- INDEX CONTINUED -
WITNESS: PAGE NUMBER
ROY GRABOW
Direct Examination By Mr. Pepper --------------- 1271
Cross-Examination By Mr. Garrison ------------- 1290
JOHN C. SMITH
Direct Examination By Mr. Pepper --------------- 1292
WILLIAM SCHAAP
Direct Examination By Mr. Pepper --------------- 1299
TRIAL EXHIBITS
24 --------------- 1265 (Collective) 25 --------------- 1271 26 --------------- 1275 27 --------------- 1286 28 --------------- 1304
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 1188
P R O C E E D I N G S
(November 30th, 1999, 10:35 a.m.)
THE COURT: Are we ready for the
jury?
MR. GARRISON: Your Honor, may
we approach the bench before we start?
THE COURT: Okay. Come on up.
(Whereupon a Bench Conference
was had.)
THE COURT: Bring the jury out,
please.
THE SHERIFF: Yes, sir.
(Jury in.)
THE COURT: Good morning, Ladies
and Gentlemen. I see you scratching on the
door, ready to go. All right. Would you
please call your first witness, Mr. Pepper.
MR. PEPPER: Yes, Your Honor.
Your Honor, plaintiffs call Mr. Jack
Kershaw.
JACK KERSHAW,
Having been first duly sworn, was examined
and testified as follows:
DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. PEPPER:
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 1189
Q. Morning, Mr. Kershaw.
A. Good morning.
Q. Thank you for joining us this
morning. I know you had some medical
problems, and it's -- it's an effort on your
part and we're grateful to you.
A. One eye's better than none.
Q. Would you please state for the record
your full name and address.
A. Jack Kershaw, K E R S H A W,
Nashville, Tennessee, member of the Nashville
Bar. The street address is 3616 Doge. The
zip is 37204.
Q. Mr. Kershaw, how long have you been a
practicing attorney?
A. Since '61.
Q. And have you practiced throughout
that period of time in the State of
Tennessee?
A. Yes.
Q. Have you lived in Nashville
throughout that period of time?
A. Yes.
Q. And did you at one time come to
represent James Earl Ray?
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 1190
A. Yes, I did.
Q. When did you begin to represent
Mr. Ray?
A. About the spring of '77 on the
occasion of the Congressional Committee
investigation of his case.
Q. And in the course of that
representation of Mr. Ray, did you consult
with him many times?
A. Oh, frequently.
Q. And at one point in time were you
asked -- not by Mr. Ray but by someone
else -- to have a meeting with an author,
William Bradford Huie?
A. That would have been in the summer of
'77, my best recollection. I received a
call from some official at Thomas Nelson
Publishing Company that William Bradford
Huie, a writer for Look Magazine, would like
to meet with me about an unrevealed
question. And I told him I'd be glad to.
And I appeared at the conference room at the
publishing company in due course and met with
Mr. Huie.
Q. And at that time that you met with
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 1191
Author Huie, you were representing James Earl
Ray?
A. Yes, that is correct.
Q. And he was aware of that?
A. Oh, yes.
Q. Now, flashing back a bit, had Author
Huie published articles on this case prior to
your meeting with him?
A. Yes. Not too long after the event,
Mr. Huie published two or three stories for
Look Magazine in which he promised to reveal
the true assassin of Martin Luther King. His
fourth article did a turn about. Instead of
revealing a conspiracy and the identity of a
mysterious assassin, he laid it all on James
Earl Ray.
Q. Which he had not done in his -- in
his previous articles?
A. It was an absolute change of face.
It was a flip-flop.
Q. Now, did you go to the Nelson
Publishing Company in Nashville and meet with
Mr. Huie?
A. Yes.
Q. And where did you meet with him in
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 1192
that publishing company?
A. In the conference room of the
publishing company.
Q. And who was present at that meeting?
A. I, of course, and Mr. Huie, and
Mr. Huie was accompanied by a couple of young
men who I did not recognize and a couple
other young men who were obviously junior
vice president or something or other of the
Thomas Nelson Publishing Company.
Q. But the people who you did not
recognize with Mr. Huie at that meeting, did
they identify themselves to you?
A. No.
Q. They didn't?
A. No.
Q. Is that unusual to participate in a
meeting and others there do not identify
themselves to you?
A. Well, the whole thing was unusual
without any proper procedure.
Q. And what took place at that meeting?
What was the purpose of Mr. Huie requesting
you to meet with him?
A. He offered a sum of money for James
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 1193
Earl Ray's story, quote, unquote. And I
asked him, what story did he want? That
Mr. Ray was telling his story every week
before the Congressional Committee. And
Mr. Huie informed me that the story he
referred to was how he killed by himself --
he and he alone killed -- shot and killed
Martin Luther King.
Q. So this writer, William Bradford
Huie, wanted a story -- the story from James
Earl Ray of how he, acting alone, killed
Martin Luther King?
A. That's right.
Q. And he was prepared to pay a sum of
money for that story?
A. Yes. He offered $25,000 for that
story. And I immediately asked him, what
good is the money going to do this man? He's
in the penitentiary. And Mr. Huie said,
well, we'll get him on pardon immediately.
Q. So Mr. Ray would tell the story,
admit his guilt, he would be given a sum of
money and he would be given a pardon?
A. That was Mr. Huie's message to me.
Q. How did Mr. Huie -- did he indicate
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 1194
at all how he was going to arrange this
pardon?
A. Well, I asked him a little bit about
that, and he never revealed his source of
influence with the governor.
Q. But he seemed confident he could
arrange a pardon?
A. Oh, yes, he was very confident. I
suggested that he arrange the pardon before
the story, but he didn't agree to that.
Q. That didn't go over very well. Of
course, Mr. Ray was on detainer from the
State of Missouri at the time. Did he say he
could arrange a pardon from the State of
Missouri as well?
A. That subject didn't come up. One
pardon presumably would be enough.
Q. I see. And this was all at the time
when the Congressional Committee was
investigating the case?
A. Yes.
Q. Well, Mr. Kershaw, did you, as James
Earl Ray's attorney, take this offer to
Mr. Ray in prison?
A. Yes. When the meeting came to a
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 1195
close, I rose and addressed Mr. Huie and I
told him that I would be glad to take his
offer to Mr. Ray, but that it seemed to me
that his very presence here in this
conference room contradicted his mission.
That his presence here indicated to me that
there was probably a rich and powerful man
behind the scenes who had instructed a rich
and powerful and gifted writer to make
overtures to get a certain story. And that
in brief, his proposition for a lone madman
killer clearly indicated a conspiracy.
Q. What did Mr. Huie reply to that?
A. He turned as red as a proverbial beet
and managed to say nothing. He was a
sandy-haired, red-faced little man to begin
with. And he never answered.
Q. And you then left. Did you
eventually take this offer to Mr. Ray?
A. Yes, I did. I was very interested to
see what his reaction would be.
Q. And what was Mr. Ray's reaction?
A. He didn't want any part of it.
Q. So he turned it down?
A. That's right.
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 1196
Q. He turned it down flat. Did you ever
hear anything more about this offer or --
A. I never heard further from Mr. Huie.
MR. PEPPER: That's fine,
Mr. Kershaw. Thank you very much.
THE WITNESS: All right.
MR. PEPPER: Nothing further.
CROSS-EXAMINATION
BY MR. GARRISON:
Q. Mr. Kershaw, let me ask you a
question. It appears you and I started
practicing law the same year, 1961. Isn't it
true that Mr. Huie later said that he had
investigated this and talked to a number of
witnesses and he had come to the conclusion
that Mr. Ray acted alone in this
assassination? Isn't that what he later
said?
A. I'm sorry. Could you repeat that.
Q. Yes, sir. Isn't it true that
Mr. Huie later said that he had talked to a
number of witnesses, including Mr. Ray, and
he concluded that Mr. Ray acted alone? Isn't
that what he later said publicly?
A. I don't recall any such statement
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 1197
from Mr. Huie.
Q. Did you ever have any further meeting
with him after this time?
A. No.
MR. GARRISON: That's all.
Thank you.
THE COURT: All right, sir. You
may stand down now.
THE WITNESS: Thank you.
(Witness excused.)
MR. PEPPER: Your Honor,
plaintiffs have been holding off on the
testimony of a couple of witnesses hoping
that they could be brought here and be
available to the Court. And it appears that
in the lateness of the hour, in terms of
plaintiffs' case, that that's not going to be
possible for one reason or another, which I'm
glad to explain to the Court.
So we'll have to proceed with the
video deposition of the first one. This
first witness is dying of liver cancer, and
he has at various times been up and about.
He's hemorrhaged rather badly in the last
week and is bed ridden. He desperately did
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 1198
want to come here. But anticipating this
problem, he was deposed in Orlando, Florida,
some time ago.
So with the Court's permission, we
would like to play that -- that first video
deposition.
THE COURT: All right. You
may.
MR. PEPPER: The name of the
witness, Your Honor, is Mr. Jack Terrel,
T E R R E L.
(Whereupon the afore-mentioned
video deposition was played for the Court and
Jury.)
(Transcript from video tape
testimony follows.)
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Will the
court reporter please swear in the witness.
JACK TERREL,
Having been first duly sworn, was examined
and testified as follows:
DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. PEPPER:
Q. Could you state your full name and --
and address for the record, please, Jack.
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 1199
A. My name is Jack R. Terrel. I live at
1044 Cascade Way in Apopka, Florida 22703.
Q. Jack, will you tell us when you were
born and where you were born.
A. I was born April 13, 1941, in
Birmingham, Alabama.
Q. And you -- could you describe for us
now the current state of your health.
A. At the present time I'm suffering
from terminal liver disease as a result of
Hepatitis C contract -- contracted in Burma
about ten years ago.
Q. And how far progressed is the disease
and what is -- what is the prognosis for you?
A. Without a liver, I will not see
Christmas.
Q. You will not see this Christmas --
A. No.
Q. -- 1999?
A. 1999, no.
Q. Let me thank you for coming here
under these circumstances and making --
A. No problem.
Q. -- yourself available, Jack. I'm
very grateful to you. If we could go a bit
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 1200
into your background. Was there a time when
you joined an organization called the
Civilian Military Assistance?
A. Yes, there was. I joined the CMA in
1984.
Q. And what was the nature of that
organization? What was their involvement?
A. At the time they were supplying
everything from arms and ammunition to
military software to the Contra Rebels in
Honduras.
Q. And is that a part of the operation
to try to overthrow the -- the government of
Nicaragua?
A. Correct. They were working hand in
hand with the FDN, which at that time was
headed by Adolpho Calero.
Q. Who was the authority behind that
organization and who created it?
A. The Central Intelligence Agency. It
was created by -- it has a history that goes
back to the early 80's when the Sandanistas,
which were at that time backed by the United
States Government, were launching attacks
from Costa Rica and Nicaragua to overthrow
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 1201
the Somoza government, Daniel Ortega and his
troops under the Sandanista banner.
And once he declared communism as
their form of government, the CIA assigned
the regional chief of operations, Duane
Claridge, which people also know as Duey
Claridge or Duey Maroni, which was his nom
deguerre, to go to Nicaragua and commence
militarily bringing down the government. And
he was given 250 million dollars to do it
with.
Q. What was the status of these
operations with respect to the law of the
United States at that time?
A. In the beginning it was unknown to
most U.S. Government officials outside of few
people in the Senate Oversight Committee,
until William Casey approved the mining of
the harbors in Managua which were
subsequently hit by three Soviet vessels.
And the hot line lit up in the White House,
and Ronald Reagan was sort of caught off
guard. And he went down the chain, what's
happening?
And it leaked to the Congressional
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 1202
Oversight Committee, and they went
ballistic. And a Congressman by the name of
Bolen floored a bill to create what is now
known as the Bolen Amendment. It was tacked
onto another bill which in essence said that
no aid, whether it be bandaids, bullets,
anything, was to go from the United States --
either militarily or civilian or charitable
or anything else -- to aid the Contra Rebels
in this supposedly overthrow.
Q. At the time -- so at the time you
were involved, the Bolen Amendment was in
effect?
A. Correct.
Q. And were the operations that you
observed in violation -- from what you could
see in violation of that amendment?
A. Directly in violation because we were
shipping arms and ammunition to the Contras.
Q. Right. In a book that you've --
you've written, Jack, about -- that recounts
some of these events -- a book called
Disposable Patriot --
A. Right.
Q. -- you referred to a pool of talent
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 1203
that is drawn upon for these types of
plausibly deniable operations.
A. Mm-hum.
Q. Would you just elaborate on what
that -- what that phrase means. What is the
pool of talent you're referring to?
A. Well, you have to go back in the
Central Intelligence Agency -- all the way
back to Stansfield Turner. When Jimmy Carter
appointed Stansfield Turner the head of the
CIA, he immediately cut loose over 1,500
field agents and black operatives in various
countries, this country, working within the
military or whatever.
When Casey took the helm of the CIA,
he not only brought back these people in
black operations, he also enlisted through
Fort Bragg special operations called JSOA.
It was called Joint Special Operations Agency
which had a door in the Pentagon, but behind
that door was an empty office.
At Fort Bragg it was called JSOC,
Joint Operations Command, which was supposed
to be members of the Marines, Army and Air
Force working together in black operations.
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 1204
But in realty it was reserve units that were
not only in place but some that were created
to carry out certain operations.
But some of the older reserves went
back into the 70's and into the 60's post
Vietnam that were operating in various parts
of the country. And, actually, nobody knew
they existed because they trained in rural
remote states. But when they would carry out
operations, it would be in civilian clothing.
Q. Was one of those reserves units,
perhaps the largest, the 20th Special Forces
Group?
A. The 20th Special Forces Group,
correct. It operated in a five-prong
situation throughout the south in Louisiana,
Alabama, Tennessee, Mississippi, Arkansas.
Q. Right. And so it was from the 20th
Special Forces Group as well as the other
sources that these -- that these -- this
talent was drawn --
A. Correct.
Q. -- for these kinds of operations.
A. They either used the reserves whom
they could command, or they had an ancillary
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 1205
that through the reserves they could bring in
civilian black operatives to work with
reserves -- with the -- the 20th Special
Forces and the Night Stalkers at Fort
Campbell, things of -- people in groups of
this nature. So it was -- it was very fluid
and involved thousands of people.
Q. Okay. Now, what was your role in the
CI -- CMA operations in Latin America?
A. I was actually placed into the CMA by
Donald Fortier, who was with the National
Security Council, as the eyes and ears for
the National Security Council within a
civilian organization to see that the
mandates that were being passed through from
CIA to NSC be carried out in Central America.
Q. And when -- when you were placed into
the CMA operations, what was -- what was your
role? What were you -- what were you
expected to do?
A. Well, I was working as a contractor
for the Central Intelligence Agency. And I
was to not only be the eyes and ears but also
eventually head the organization and -- and
to carry out the orders that we have received
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 1206
from -- anything from assassinations to
ground infiltrations to sabotage.
In fact, we had an operation
called -- our primary responsibility --
Pegasus, which in Spanish is Pagasso, which
we had targeted on a feeding-style project
from Vietnam to go in and take out the
infrastructure physically and personnel wise,
meaning in the directorate of the Sandanistas
assassinate these people to overthrow the
government.
Q. Now, if you were placed in this
organization by a member -- a high-ranking
member of the National Security Council --
A. Mm-hum.
Q. -- is it conceivable -- and the
National Security Council reported directly
to the president of the United States.
A. Yes, sir, they did, every day.
Q. Is it conceivable that the president
of the United States -- would be the vice
president of the United States at the time --
did not know that these activities were going
on in contravention of the Bolen Amendment?
A. The president directly knew. George
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 1207
Bush went past knowing. He was over his
head, actually using his assistant to -- and
also his son who is now the governor of
Florida, Jeb Bush, in seeing that quote,
unquote, civilian operations went forward in
the means of transporting aircraft for supply
drops to loading ships with weapons in the
port of Miami, Florida, destined for the
area, putting Manuel Noriega on the payroll
which in turn allowed the bidding cartel from
Columbia to franchise Central America.
And this is where the rub came with
me is because they went into -- the CIA
caused creative financing, which they did in
Vietnam under General Frank Powell and Air
America, which was the transportation of what
they call sticky bricks or opium and the
money deposited in the New Guinean bank in
Australia. They were trying to create the
same situation in concert with a bank called
the BCCI which is now history.
But it was a well-orchestrated
thing, and such a situation that I would put
it this way. If you were a fly on the wall
in the Oval Office, they would have -- they
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 1208
would have impeached him faster than even
considering an impeachment on Clinton because
they -- they were up to their elbows in it.
Q. Now, you became disenchanted at one
point in time.
A. Oh, yes.
Q. What was the reason for your
disenchantment?
A. Drugs. The allowing shipments of
drugs to be flown in American aircraft to
Homestead, Florida; U.S. Air Force planes,
contracting people to fly from Cartagena,
Barranquilla, Medellin, to Corn Island and
Nicaragua or to northern Costa Rica to quote,
unquote, a CIA base to be refueled to be
brought into the United States. Therefore, a
kilo of cocaine went from $80,000 to $18,000
in a matter of 30 days.
So I came to Washington to testify
before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee
and aired my gripes about it because I was at
that time supposed to be running the
organization. And I found out you do not go
against a popular sitting president the hard
way.
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 1209
Q. So you became -- effectively became a
whistle blower?
A. Oh, yes.
Q. And it was triggered by the fact that
you objected to the elicit smuggling of drugs
into the United States as a means of
financing these covert operations?
A. Correct.
Q. And what happened -- what happened to
you as a result of your attempting to -- to
testify?
A. Two attempts were made on my life.
One in San Jose, Costa Rica, where there's
probably still a Toyota sitting there with 92
bullet holes in it. And I was poisoned in
Manapol Grama (phonetic) by agents working
through an organization headed by General
Richard Secor and Oliver North, who was
reporting to Bill Casey, called Operation
Freedom.
But it was all a store-front
operation to shut me up because I have got
clout -- I am in possession of classified
information stating that I knew quote,
unquote, too much about their operation, so
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 1210
they needed to terminate me. When that
didn't work, they went after my credibility.
They tapped my telephones. Even
down to telling my daughter that I was a paid
intelligence asset for Fidel Castro. I was
listed as a terrorist threat to the United
States Government. I was taken by the Secret
Service to -- from offices in Washington to
be polygraphed, which I passed.
And during -- the 15 questions that
I was asked by the Secret Service, only one
of them had to do with assassination. And
that question was: Do you now or have you
ever thought of harming anyone who worked for
the United States Government? The rest of
them was did I agree with Ronald Reagan's
policy on Central America -- political
questions.
But I passed it. And they really
couldn't do anything to me at that point
except continue to go after my credibility.
Q. Did they at one point in time, also
in attempting to destroy your credibility,
seek to prosecute you?
A. Oh, yes. I was indicted on six
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 1211
counts in Fort Lauderdale, Florida, by Edwin
Meese, at the direction of the White House,
who forced the acting U.S. Attorney at the
time in a distant state -- you know, I'm in
Washington D.C., but they indicted me in Fort
Lauderdale and basically for following
orders. But the -- one of the indictments,
to show you how far they will reach, was
conspiring to put a luggage tag on a suitcase
containing a firearm that they issued.
You know, so it was that bad. So
our attorneys -- my attorney, John Magids,
filed a precedent setting motion under -- I
can't even think of the name of the law at
the time -- a neutral anti-trial act called
the "At Peace Motion" which said that we were
not at war with Nicaragua but we weren't at
peace with them either.
So George -- Judge Norman Rutger,
who is the second highest seniority to John
Serika (phonetic), said this is the most
politically charged indictment I have ever
seen in my life and threw it out.
Q. So he dismissed the indictment?
A. Yes.
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 1212
Q. And the prosecution did not go ahead?
A. Well, the CIA came down there and
briefed the judge. And at that point the
prosecution actually wound up becoming
witnesses in our case.
Q. Was there any polygraph that you had
to take -- that you did take -- that you
elected to take during that point in time
that you failed with respect to any of these
events?
A. No, I've never failed a polygraph.
Q. Jack, we can go back now to an
earlier time around about -- or in the early
1970's you moved to Mississippi.
A. Correct, Columbus.
Q. And you established a business
there.
A. Correct.
Q. Could you just describe the business
that you developed.
A. I developed an EMS system while I was
in Montgomery, Alabama, that was designed to
work in rural states. And Mississippi was
the most rural. I was told it couldn't work,
so I took the challenge and went ahead with
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 1213
it and became extraordinarily successful with
it. And in the process I hired and had at
one point probably 400 people working for
me. And everything was roses.
Q. Was one of the people working for you
whom you met and became friendly with a -- a
reserve officer in the 20th Special Forces
Group?
A. There were several. But the one
you're talking about came to work for me --
J.D. Hill, who is a member of the 20th
Special Forces which, incidentally, had a
training headquarters in Columbus.
Q. Mm-hum.
A. But he came to work for me and
eventually rose to the rank of supervisor
within my organization stationed at the home
office in Columbus. And during this period,
because of shared interest in firearms and
things of this nature, we became very close
friends.
Q. Right. Could you describe J.D. Hill
as a -- how you came to -- what your
impression of him was during the time that he
worked for you.
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 1214
A. J.D. was a -- he was a strange person
in a lot of ways, but in some ways he was a
very intelligent, well-trained individual who
had -- before he come to work with me fought
in Costa Rica. His mother had come from
Costa Rica. But he knew exactly what he
wanted in life in many ways. His only
setback was that he drank.
But when I promoted him to the rank
of supervisor, it was on the condition that
he stop drinking, which he did. He
completely quit drinking and became another
man. He confided in me often about things he
wouldn't talk with (sic) because he came from
a broken home. He was full of rage. He was
the type of person -- if I was going to pick
for an operation, he would be the type I
would pick. He profiled perfectly on a -- on
a lot of things for people that you would
want to look death in the face and not worry
about it.
Q. Did you learn much about the unit he
was attached to, the 20th Special Forces
Group, during this time?
A. I went past that. I tried to get
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 1215
into it, and they wouldn't let me. I used to
go out on the weekends and parachute jump
with them, and I got to know many of them
there.
Q. Right.
A. You know, and they would tell me
stories that at that time seemed kind of
unbelievable. But as time passed by, they
weren't so unbelievable.
Q. Did that unit have a training session
once a year?
A. Once a year at Camp Shelby,
Mississippi, they would go for two weeks and
just disappear off the face of the earth, and
then they would show back up two weeks later.
Q. Right. And was that -- were members
of that unit used on various covert
operations throughout this period?
A. Many. A lot of them -- I didn't know
about some of them. I did know about
mission -- two missions that were told to me,
one called Operation Back Pack and one of
them called Operation Quail Hunter. One of
them was designed to literally take a nuclear
device behind enemy lines in a back pack and
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 1216
plant it at an undisclosed location to be
detonated later. But that's how high --
highly they were thought of where they could
carry nuclear weapons.
Q. Were they -- were they -- did they
wear civilian clothing in the course of these
covert operations?
A. They never were in uniform -- always
in civilian clothes. And I was told on many
occasions, you know, that if you see me
somewhere and I'm supposed to be, you know,
doing something for the military and I don't
have a uniform on, act like you don't know
me.
Q. Was there a time when your
relationship developed closely enough with --
with J.D. Hill that he had told you about a
highly secret operation that he had been
involved in some years before?
A. Mm-hum. He had just returned from
Camp Shelby, Mississippi, on one of these
tours they did down there, and he looked like
a completely different person. He had lost
like 45 pounds, he was hard as a rock, his
eyes were like steel. And I told him -- I
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 1217
said, you know, people who are on diets need
to go where you went because I've never seen
anybody make a transformation like this. And
he said, well, it wasn't the first time.
And I said, what are you talking
about? And he said, well, you do what you
got to do. And I said, well, that's still
not telling me anything. And he said, well,
I'll tell you about it one day. And one day
we were out in the field in one of our cars
and went to an old beer joint -- I don't even
drink, but went to a beer joint down near the
state line. And he said, I want to tell you
something I think I need to get off my
chest.
And he said, not that it's worrying
me or bugging me or anything else but, he
says, I'm going to show you the level of what
it amounted to -- the involvement that they
had. And he started telling me about a
covert operation that he was involved in that
he really didn't know what he was doing. He
was asked to come to Shelby for special
training. He was a sniper. In fact, he had
three MOS's. And he said that he was
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 1218
assigned to a --
Q. Excuse me, Jack. Would you explain
what an MOS is.
A. Well, it's a military occupation
specialty. He said that he was assigned to a
team of men at Camp Shelby that had been put
together as a chute -- triangular chute team,
which means chuting from three positions.
And that they went into training and would be
sent to Pocatello, Idaho, to start shooting
at moving targets because they had been told
that they were going to take out an Arab
leader -- unnamed and unknown Arab leader.
And they had to refine their
shooting skills to such a point -- different
elevations, different angles, but always from
the triangular chute on moving vehicles. And
they practiced, practiced, practiced. And he
said they -- they were told what they needed
to know. Everything was on a need-to-know
basis. He said later that he was called back
to Shelby and the team was there. They were
not issued their standard sniper weapons,
which at that time they were using SSG's
which is made by Manliquor (phonetic). It's
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 1219
a double-trigger weapon that fires a 3.75 by
five, nine, I think, slug. But it's pretty
powerful and deadly accurate at 1,100
meters.
And they worked out with
standard-issue 30 aught 6 weapons which he
thought was very weird. He said, man -- he
said, they just gave us 30 aught 6's to go
out and start shooting these things. He
said, we didn't know what -- what was going
on. And he said, I was about ready to ruck
up -- which means pack up -- and leave. And
he says he was told real quick by the
commander of the base, you know, that they
were confined and they were fixing to go
somewhere. And he said, you will be briefed
at the time.
He said that they had been taken via
aircraft to West Memphis, Arkansas, and put
on stand by, and that they were to take out a
target in Memphis, Tennessee, still unknown
at the time. And the chute map was laid out
to them and they had two scenarios. One was
a moving scenario, the other was a scenario
involving a hotel where they would fire on
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 1220
the target from three positions -- one from
the water tower, one from the third floor of
a building, and the third place was the
rooftop of another building.
And they would be given the yes or
no within a certain period of time. And he
said while on standby they were picked up,
and they were going to go into Memphis. And
all of a sudden it was cancelled. And they
started just rushing people out, and they put
him on a plane and literally flew him back
directly to a county north of Browns County,
Mississippi, and told to, you know, go back
to town, nothing happened, you know. You've
been out of town on a training exercise,
nobody knows nothing. Keep your mouth shut.
Q. So this unit was trained to shoot at
a target or targets in a moving vehicle, that
was the --
A. Originally, yes.
Q. Originally that's what they were --
that they were geared up to do, and that's
what their training at Pocatello was --
A. Mm-hum.
Q. -- was to do. And then -- and they
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 1221
were put on standby in West Memphis,
Arkansas.
A. Correct.
Q. And then the operation, for some
reason, was cancelled and they were taken --
they were taken out of there.
A. Mm-hum.
Q. Did they take up their positions at
any point in Memphis?
A. They were headed in to take up their
positions when the mission was cancelled.
Q. They were heading in --
A. Yes.
Q. -- to take up the positions --
A. Yes.
Q. -- when it was cancelled?
A. But it was no way for him to know
what -- in the make-up of the organization
you had three snipers, a command and control
officer, communications officers, had an
ordnance officer and a medic. So they didn't
travel like a covey of quail. You know, they
would be taken differently. Whether other
people had been taken in and set up, he had
no knowledge of it because he was taken out
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 1222
by himself. You know, he was flown
singularly.
Q. Oh, he was taken out by himself?
A. Yes, singularly, and flown into the
county above.
Q. I see. So he doesn't know what --
A. No.
Q. -- what happened. Did he ever say
that he had discussed this with any of the
other members of the team at any point?
A. Oh, they all discussed it the next
day.
Q. All right.
A. Because he said, I picked up the
paper and said, oh, my God.
Q. What did he -- what did he read in
the paper that made him say "oh, my God"?
A. That Martin Luther King had been
assassinated.
Q. Martin Luther King had been
assassinated in Memphis, Tennessee --
A. Memphis, Tennessee.
Q. -- on the 4th of April, 1968?
A. Mm-hum.
Q. And then was it his view that he
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 1223
had -- he was somehow -- or his unit was
somehow -- had been trained or were being
trained and being prepared to -- to carry out
that assassination?
A. At that time he knew exactly that was
the purpose. He don't know why they were
scrubbed, but he knows exactly that they were
trained for that mission and were never told.
Q. Presumably the reconnaissance was
done by vice -- by others in advance of that
operation?
A. They believe the FBI, among others,
was doing recon and military intelligence.
Q. What eventually happened to J.D.
Hill?
A. J.D., like I said, was a strange
fellow. And he was a person of habit. He
was paranoid to the point that he kept a
light on in front of his house at all times.
And I was called about 2 o'clock in the
morning and advised by another supervisor
that J.D. had been found shot dead on his
porch and said that his wife had shot him
because he was drunk.
So I asked him -- I said, were you
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 1224
there? And he said, yes. I said, well, tell
me what's going on. And I said, is the light
on? And he said -- he said, no. What
light? And it just sort of struck a chord in
my head. Why is the light out, you know.
And I knew the investigating officers and
went down to see the set up but really never
got to see the set up. And I didn't go to
his funeral, you know, because I was
extraordinarily upset about it because his
wife was almost red carpeted out of town
after he was shot.
But I do know that he was shot at
close range with a .357 Magnum in almost a
circular pattern around his heart. He was
dead so fast his eyes were still open when he
hit the ground. And I thought to myself,
Janice Hill only weighed like 90 -- 89 pounds
rather, and had no experience with firearms.
And if it was indeed dark -- number one, J.D.
wouldn't have approached the porch. Number
two, if someone of her stature and the
knowledge of firearms had shot him, it
would -- it wouldn't even have come close to
being a pattern of putting three -- I mean,
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 1225
five .357's in a circular pattern because the
first shot would have disoriented her so bad,
she wouldn't know where she was in the dark.
So none of it added up, you know.
And I asked questions, questions, questions
trying to see at one point Janice Hill and
wasn't allowed to see her. You know, but in
my mind to this day my belief was he was --
he was assassinated.
Q. She was -- she was charged and a
Grand Jury was convened but nothing --
A. Correct.
Q. -- was ever raised against her. So
there was no indictment.
A. Mm-hum.
Q. And she then left Columbus.
A. But to this day I imagine you would
find very little evidence about the
shooting.
Q. Now, coming back to the unit -- and
this was a -- this sniper team was a 20th
Special Forces --
A. Group.
Q. -- Unit.
A. Yes.
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 1226
Q. I have checked the rosters of -- of
that unit from each of the -- each of the
states that -- that you have mentioned. I'm
not going to ask you to identify any names or
state any names for the record. But I'm just
going to show you the Mississippi roster, and
I'm just going to see if any of the names on
that roster are names that you heard about or
knew were involved on this team -- this
assassination team with -- with J.D. Hill.
A. See, it's easy to do because J.D. had
told me anybody on the team had to hold at
least the rank of sergeant. And --
Q. Do you see any names there that --
that --
A. One --
Q. -- you know?
A. -- two, three -- and all three of
these people were very close. One, two --
Q. There's J.D.'s name.
A. Mm-hum, J.D. And this one, this
one.
Q. Then you go down to Florida. So
it's -- so there are recognizable names there
on that roster of people who were on that
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 1227
team.
A. Mm-hum.
Q. Well, Jack, at various times in your
professional career, you have been -- you've
been interviewed by television teams, and
you've been a source of information --
A. More than I can count.
Q. -- via television on documentary and
news programs, haven't you?
A. Mm-hum. Mm-hum.
Q. Have you as well been a source of
information to -- to ABC's news department
for various --
A. Several times.
Q. -- things?
A. Several times. In fact, I worked
very closely with a producer there, Chris
Isham, on a couple of big stories which were
aired.
Q. And did ABC ever require you to take
a polygraph?
A. Yes, they did. They took me to
Miami, Florida, and had me polygraphed to
make -- to make sure of my quote, unquote,
reliability because of this whole situation
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 1228
about the credibility thing in Washington.
But I've been on 60 Minutes, Larry King, you
name it. None of them asked me to do it, you
know. But, like I said, Mike Wallace
would -- if I called him today and said I got
a story, he would say come to New York, you
know, because I've done it before. Because
they have no doubt about my credibility. But
ABC wanted to make sure.
Q. Right. And when you took the ABC
polygraph test, what were the results?
A. I passed it.
Q. And so your credibility was, in your
mind anyway, well established with ABC.
A. Oh, yes.
Q. Now, do you recall some while ago
that ABC did a program -- a documentary on
the King assassination?
A. Mm-hum.
Q. A program presented by a chap called
Forest Sawyer.
A. Yes.
Q. Now, did they send a team here to
Florida to interview you?
A. Right up the road here in a hotel.
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 1229
Q. And how long did that interview take?
A. About three hours.
Q. So they interviewed you for three
hours?
A. Mm-hum.
Q. And did you tell them -- that ABC
team -- did you tell them the story that you
have put forward here today under oath?
A. Yes, I have.
Q. And this -- with this kind of
detail --
A. Correct.
Q. -- about the presence of that 20th
Special Forces Unit --
A. Correct.
Q. -- in Memphis? And was any of that
interview -- any part of that interview used
on that documentary?
A. No. I was shocked when it wasn't.
Q. Not -- not one second of that
interview --
A. Not one second, no.
Q. -- was used. And do you have any
idea why it wasn't used?
A. Well, after the interview, a few days
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 1230
later, I received a phone call from an old
friend of mine in FBI counter intelligence.
And he said, I thought your press days were
over. And I said, well, what are you talking
about? He says, M.I. knows everything that
you're doing with ABC, and that's military
intelligence. So, evidently, DIA was and may
still be keeping an eye on me. And they
didn't -- who knows. If they didn't want it
used, it wouldn't have been used.
Q. So this clearly implies that there
was some -- appears to have been some
collaboration between ABC and
intelligence. Or at least to the extent that
your --
A. Their knowledge --
Q. Their knowledge.
A. -- was out, yes. They had called it
a leak, you know. But somebody knew, yes.
Because, again, this guy didn't just call me
out of the blue. They sent me a message.
And I soon after left the country.
Q. You left the country after that?
A. Yes, I did.
Q. You felt that that was the prudent
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 1231
thing to do in terms of --
A. Well, I'm tired of being a target,
you know. I mean, they tried too many times
to get me. And I've learned over the years
that if you want to disappear, you leave the
country for an extended period and you come
back and set up in a different place and they
got a cold trail.
Q. How long were you gone when you left
the country?
A. Several months. In fact, I went to
Russia just to piss them off.
Q. But coming back to the absence of
your -- your information and your
recollection on the ABC program, there would
have been no basis for them to --
A. None.
Q. -- challenge your credibility because
they had used you --
A. Oh, yes.
Q. -- so many times before and tested
it.
A. Correct.
Q. And they knew you very well.
A. Correct. Several people at ABC,
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 1232
Karen Burns, people like this, they all know
me. They know my credibility. They've done
too many stories on me. I was the source for
too many of their stories while I was in
Washington for nearly two years.
Q. So there has to be another reason --
A. Yes.
Q. -- for their failure to use that
story. Jack, we just -- we're coming to the
end here, and we have moved along quite
well. I'd just like to know that in the 20
odd years or so that's intervened since J.D.
Hill told you about him being trained and
being a part of the unit that was under
orders to kill Martin Luther King, Jr., if
you -- if you have developed any reason to
question what J.D. was telling you -- any --
anything at all that -- that would lead you
now to disbelieve what he was saying to you
then --
A. No. None. Nothing whatsoever. I
mean, then, now, whatever -- in fact, I
probably would believe it more now than I did
then, you know. Because just the time line
and the way things -- you know, you can look
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 1233
back and see things. But probably time has
reinforced what he told me more than, you
know, him just telling me then, which I
believed then because we were that close.
Q. So do you now with all of -- all of
this consideration and all of your conscience
believe that your old friend J.D. Hill was a
part of a 20th Special Forces Sniper Unit
that was on a mission to kill Martin Luther
King on the 4th of April, 1968?
A. Well, if this was a death bed
confession, I wouldn't change a word. Yes,
of course I believe it.
Q. Okay. No doubt at all?
A. No doubt.
Q. Okay. Thanks very much.
A. Sure.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: The time
is 3:45 p.m. We're off the record.
(End of video deposition.)
THE COURT: Okay. Let's take a
short break.
(Brief break taken.)
THE COURT: Bring the jury out,
please, sir.
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 1234
THE SHERIFF: Yes.
(Jury In.)
THE COURT: Ready, Mr. Pepper?
MR. PEPPER: Your Honor,
plaintiffs call Mr. Louis Ward to the stand.
LOUIS WARD,
Having been first duly sworn, was examined
and testified as follows:
DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. PEPPER:
Q. Good afternoon, Mr. Ward.
A. Good afternoon.
Q. Thank you for coming here today and
helping us in this case.
A. You're welcome.
Q. Would you please state your full name
and address for the record.
A. Louie Ward, 2440 Cardigan Drive,
Memphis, Tennessee. That's 38119.
Q. And what do you do presently,
Mr. Ward?
A. Roofer presently.
Q. I know you -- are you involved in
roofing activity part time or full time?
A. Well, part time now. I have full
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 1235
time for about 36 years, but I'm just part
time now. My boy now is kind of handling
most of it.
Q. What did you do previously in
addition to being a roofer?
A. Well, I was security police for the
Government for about 22 years. Of course, I
done -- drove a taxicab part time.
Q. Where did you work in security police
work?
A. Out at the Army Depot.
Q. I'm sorry?
A. At the Army Depot.
Q. The Army Depot. And where was that?
A. Out on Airways Boulevard.
Q. I see.
A. 2163 Airways.
Q. So you held that position for how
long?
A. 22 years in the security police, and
then the last eight years I was a roofer out
there.
Q. And in addition to that you said
you -- you also drove a taxicab part time.
A. Yes, I sure did.
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 1236
Q. And for which company did you drive a
taxicab?
A. Well, I drove for both companies. Of
course, I drove for Yellow most of the time.
Of course, there was about -- when I first
came to Memphis, I came to take a course in
watch making. And I started driving a cab in
order to have some money coming in. I done
that for three years, and then I found other
jobs, and I just drove part time then for
several years.
Q. Right. And in 1968 which company
were you driving for?
A. Yellow.
Q. You were driving for Yellow?
A. Mm-hum.
Q. Mr. Ward, could you come forward a
bit, a little closer to the microphone so
everyone can hear.
A. Is that better?
Q. Yes. Can you pull your chair
forward, please, just a little bit.
THE COURT: That's good.
Q. (BY MR. PEPPER) Okay. I think that
will be better. Thank you. You were driving
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 1237
for Yellow Cab in 1968?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. All right. How often did you drive
for them?
A. Oh, most of the time about once a
week or sometimes twice a week. On my off
days out at the depot I would usually drive.
Q. Okay. Were you driving for Yellow
Cab Company on the 4th of April, 1968?
A. Yes, I sure was.
Q. And were you driving for Yellow on
the evening of April 4, 1968?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you -- in the course of your
taxicab driving and duties, did you come to
know a driver named Paul Butler?
A. I sure did.
Q. And do you remember which car number
Mr. Butler was driving on the 4th of April,
1968?
A. 58.
Q. He was driving Car Number 58?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Do you know how long Mr. Butler had
driven for Yellow?
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 1238
A. Several years because the drivers
that had drove a long time drove the new
cabs, and us drivers that just drove part
time drove the old cabs. So he had a new cab
that he -- at that time that he drove. So he
had been there for some bit.
Q. So -- so Mr. Butler had been driving
for Yellow Cab for a number of years.
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did he always drive Car Number 58
or --
A. Well, he did until they were getting
another new cab. And, of course, when they
got another new cab, it would be a different
number. And he would always -- well, you bid
on your cabs according to your seniority. So
he would -- when the new ones come out, he
would be able to get a different cab. 58, he
had drove it for about -- I guess it was a
couple of years old or something like that,
that he drove all the time.
Q. Did he have a particular route that
he drove on?
A. He -- well, of course, he got
different calls here in the city. But mostly
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 1239
he played the airport -- what we call
"played the airport." In other words, he --
Q. Drove the airport route?
A. Mm-hum.
Q. Now, did you see Mr. Butler on April
4, 1968?
A. Yes, sir, I sure did.
Q. Did you ever see Mr. Butler again
after April 4, 1968?
A. No, sir, I sure didn't.
Q. Now, would you tell this Court how
you saw Mr. Butler and when you first heard
from him and how you saw him on April 4,
1968.
A. Well, I was sitting at Quince and
Kirby in a service station. I called and
reported where I was sitting waiting on a
call. And I heard Paul come in on the radio
and -- well, I couldn't hear him, but he
talked to the dispatcher. And the dispatcher
called his name, that's the reason I knew he
was talking to Paul. And I heard him say,
I'll send an ambulance. And so --
Q. You heard the dispatcher say "I'll
send an ambulance"?
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 1240
A. Send an ambulance, yeah. And so I
knew then that somebody had gotten hurt. I
didn't know whether it was another cab driver
or not. And then the dispatcher -- he
started repeating what Paul said. He said,
you mean that Dr. Martin Luther King has been
shot? And he said yes. And he said, well,
I'll send an ambulance. And he said, I don't
believe an ambulance can help him. Because
he would repeat it back so I knew what he was
saying. And he said, well, I'll send an
ambulance anyhow and send the police.
He told him -- he says, when you
call the police, tell them that the man who
shot him is headed towards the squad car just
sitting about a half a block north towards
the hotel.
Q. Now, let me back you up a little
bit. How are you hearing this conversation?
Is the dispatcher repeating what he's
hearing?
A. He was repeating, yes, sir. He was
repeating what Paul was saying.
Q. And what did he say? What did he
repeat that he heard Paul broadcasting?
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 1241
A. Well, he had -- he just repeated that
Dr. Martin Luther King had got shot and
then -- of course, he repeated that he would
send an ambulance and send a squad car and --
call the police rather. And that's whenever
Paul came back and told him there's a squad
car sitting north -- about a half a block
north of the motel. And that the man who
shot him was heading towards the squad car.
And -- of course, when he -- well,
he -- of course, I went out and talked to him
later on and got the message good of what he
was saying.
Q. Let's move -- let's move to that. So
you heard this exchange on the radio.
A. Yes, sir.
Q. What did you do after that?
A. Well, I told the guy at the service
station -- I said, Martin Luther King just
got shot. He laughed at me. He said, you
see that box sitting up on the pump? He
said, that would be the first thing that come
on it. And I said, no. I said, he just got
shot. It would have to go to where that box
is coming from before you get it. I headed
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 1242
from there to my home which at that time was
4935 -- 3549 Kay, which is about two -- two
and a half miles.
And I drove in and told my wife the
same thing. And she had the television on.
She said the same thing. Well, I was there
about two minutes when it came on that he had
been shot but not serious. And I said, well,
the guy said that it looked like he had a
stick of dynamite in his mouth. It blew his
jaw off and part of his vertebrae is out of
his neck. And I said, he's going to the
airport and there's no calls coming in, so
I'm heading to the airport. So I did. So I
went out there, and there's where I found
Paul out there, so --
Q. You then drove to the airport --
A. Yes, sir.
Q. -- and looked for Paul?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And you found him?
A. Yes, sir. He was sitting out there.
Q. And did you -- did you talk to him?
A. Yes, sir, I sure did. Because I --
you know, I was interested in knowing just
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 1243
exactly what happened. So -- of course, what
he told me, that the passenger that he picked
up he believed knew something about it. Of
course, he said I was looking -- I was
loading stuff in the trunk. And there was so
much stuff, I could not get it all in my
trunk, had to put some in the back seat.
While I was placing it in the trunk,
he said, I was looking in the direction where
the guy was going to shoot. Before the shot,
he punched me and said, look up there,
Dr. Martin Luther King is standing up there
by himself, not a soul with him. He said,
that's something you don't usually see. And
as I raised up and looked, that rifle
popped -- it didn't sound like a rifle, it
sounded like two boards clapped together.
And he said, I seen his jaw and part of his
neck blowed away. It was like he had a stick
of dynamite in his mouth. He said, as I
wheeled and looked, I seen a cluster of smoke
coming up out of the bushes, and then I seen
the guy come running up. He didn't have no
rifle. But he said, I know that he is the
one that had to shoot him. And then he
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 1244
headed towards the -- headed north towards
the squad car.
And, of course, we thought the
police had picked him up. Because it was a
black and white squad car. Of course, the
black and white squad car at that time takes
care of traffic. The blue squad cars was
really the police. But this was a black and
white squad car. But we thought they had
picked him up. So he told the dispatcher.
He said, did you hear the tires were
squealing? And he said, yes, I could hear
the tires were squealing.
Q. So he's telling you that after the
shot he saw a man come out of the bushes --
A. Yes, sir.
Q. -- run up north on Mulberry Street --
A. Yes, sir.
Q. -- and get into a squad car -- a
traffic --
A. Traffic squad car, black and white,
mm-hum.
Q. Which was parked where?
A. He said about a half a block north of
the motel.
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 1245
Q. And then what happened to that car?
A. Well, he said they headed north. We
thought he picked -- well, he come back on
the radio and said the police has picked him
up and they headed north with him. You could
hear the tires were squealing. So we thought
the police had already picked up the guy that
done the shooting.
Q. I see. So both you and Mr. Butler
had thought that the police had apprehended
the shooter.
A. Yes.
Q. What happened next? Did any police
come out to the airport?
A. Yes. While I'm standing there
talking, a squad car drove up with a
lieutenant and a patrolman. They got out.
Well, I didn't see the squad car as it drove
up. But they walked up as I was talking to
Mr. Butler. And the lieutenant had a pad.
So he had taken the same report that
Mr. Butler had gave me and the rest of us --
because there are several of us cab drivers
standing around.
And the lieutenant wrote the report
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 1246
down that he had and told him that they would
be back in contact with him. So they got in
the squad car and left after they got the
report.
Q. So they took a report from Mr. Butler
and they -- they left. Where were you
standing when that report was being taken?
A. Oh, probably -- when they came up, I
was standing up next to him. When they came
up, I backed away, probably 3 or 4 feet out
of their way, where they would have plenty of
clearance. But I was close enough that he
gave them the same report that he gave me.
Q. You overheard this report being
given?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. All right. Then what happened next?
A. Well, they called -- the dispatcher
called him to come in to the headquarters.
We have a headquarters. Said he was wanted
down there. Well, later on that night, not
too much later, I was in town and drove by
the cab company and there was several squad
cars down there. And I figured that they
were, you know, taking some more reports.
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 1247
And then I found out later that he was
supposed to be at court at 9 o'clock the next
morning.
Q. He was supposed to give a
statement --
A. Yes, sir.
Q. -- the next morning? And how many
squad cars were around Yellow's offices that
night?
A. There were several. I would say
seven or eight. Might have been more, might
have been five or six. But I just noticed
there were several squad cars sitting there.
I didn't count them.
Q. Seven or eight Memphis Police
Department cars around Yellow's headquarters
that night?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Okay. You didn't see Mr. Butler at
that time, did you?
A. No, I sure didn't. I didn't go in.
I just drove by and seen it. There were so
many squad cars down there, I just pulled on
because I didn't --
Q. What time did you get home that --
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 1248
that evening on the 4th of April?
A. I was -- I drove all night that
night. I was the only cab driver that drove
all night that night. And -- but I stayed
out there. And, of course, I seen police
heading out there. And, of course, they had
a curfew. Everybody was in. They called the
cabs in. But I just stayed out there and
drove because I had plenty of business, and I
stayed out there and drove all night that
night.
Q. Right. You drove all night and you
went in -- went home the next morning?
A. Next morning, yes, sir.
Q. When did you next go to Yellow Cab's
offices, Mr. Ward?
A. It was about two weeks. Because,
see, they -- I was security police out at the
time out at the Depot. My wife -- when I got
home, she said there had been a call for me
to come out there. So I went out there, and
we stayed on duty 24 hours a day for a whole
week -- all of the security people did. And
then it was about two weeks.
Q. It was about two weeks before you
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 1249
reported back to Yellow --
A. Yes.
Q. -- to go to work?
A. To drive a cab.
Q. And would you tell us what happened
when you reported to work at that time?
A. Well, I was out at the airport and
picked up a gentleman. And he was -- of
course, he was with the FBI. I mean, we had
had dealings with him out at the airport, and
I knew him when I picked him up. So on the
way in, I asked him -- I said, what are you
doing in town? And he said, who am I talking
to? So I raised my cap up. And he said,
Mr. Ward, what are you a policeman or a cab
driver? And I said, well, I don't make money
like the FBI. I have to be both guys. So
we, you know, laughed about it.
He said, you know why I'm in town so
why do you ask? And I said, well, I figured
that's why you're in here, but I'm just
wondering. And he said that's -- well,
that's why I'm here. And, of course --
Q. Then did you go into -- into Yellow's
offices?
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 1250
A. No, I brought him on down to the
motel is where I brought him. I brought him
to the Peabody Hotel is where I --
Q. When was the next time you actually
went into the offices and --
A. Oh, it was -- well, I went into the
office when I first came back to work. I
went in then. That's when I -- I asked him
about Mr. Butler.
Q. Who did you ask about Mr. Butler?
A. There was four or five cab drivers
standing around talking. And I just asked
them. And that's when they told me -- I
don't even remember which one told me. But
he said he had been throwed out of a high-
speed automobile between Memphis and West
Memphis. And they found him about 10 o'clock
the next day.
Q. They said he was thrown out of a
high-speed automobile. When was he thrown
out of that automobile?
A. The next -- the next morning. They
said they found his body about 10 o'clock or
10:30 the next morning. He was supposed to
have been in court at 9 o'clock that morning
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 1251
and he wasn't there. They found his car
there at the cab company. And -- but he
wasn't -- he wasn't -- never made it to
court. But then about 10:30 they said they
found his body between Memphis and West
Memphis.
Q. They found his body between Memphis
and West Memphis?
A. On the old -- on the old highway. Of
course, they didn't have the other highway at
that time. It was just --
Q. Would it have been the old -- the old
bridge or was it off the bridge?
A. From what they said, it was off the
bridge. They said between Memphis and West
Memphis so I figured it was probably
somewhere along that straight stretch that he
was throwed out.
Q. And did they say what car he was
thrown out of?
A. No, sir, they just --
Q. Just said he was thrown out?
A. A high-speed car. They just found
his body. And they said he had been throwed
out of a high-speeded automobile. And that's
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 1252
all I got. I got the paper. I thought I'd
read about it. And, of course, at that time
they had the Press Center and the Commercial
Appeal. And I went from page to page and
there wasn't never nothing put in the paper
about -- about it, so -- and --
Q. You never read anything in the
newspaper about it?
A. No, sir.
Q. About the death?
A. No, sir.
Q. Did you believe the story that you
were being told by your --
A. Well, yes. I didn't see him. Of
course, the boys -- I mean, they all walked
up and told me. Yes, I had no doubt not to
believe it. In fact, that's -- I never did
see nothing -- nobody else about it. I mean,
being he got killed, I didn't -- I wasn't
ready to go then, so -- I'm still not ready
to go, but I feel a little bit more better
now than I did then.
Q. Many years later.
A. Yes, sir, many years later.
Q. Did you ever tell this story to
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 1253
anyone?
A. Yes, sir. You know, didn't nobody
believe me. It was just like that guy I
talked to at the service station. I wonder
what he thought later on when it came on his
box, what he called it, what had happened.
But I told the people about it. And then a
year or so later say something about it, and
they never heard a thing about it. And I
said, you didn't believe me the first time I
told you, did you? So I just mostly kept it
to myself then.
Q. Did the -- did you ever tell this
story to the FBI?
A. Yes, sir. I -- well, I called -- his
name -- Mr. Pungetti (phonetic), I believe
was his name. He was a district attorney
here. And I read a piece in the paper where
he was so sure that James Earl Ray killed him
and he didn't want nothing else said about
it. So I called and I never could get to
talk to him. And, of course, Mr. Veasley --
he used to be my Sunday school teacher. I
got a hold of him. He was the Assistant
District Attorney at the time. And I asked
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 1254
him, can I talk to Mr. Pungetti? And he said
yes. So -- he said, I'll get you on with
him.
Well, I asked him -- I told him, I
said, I read what you put in the paper that
you were so sure that James Earl Ray killed
him and you didn't want nothing else said
about it. And I said, what makes you so
sure? And he said, well, what makes you sure
he didn't? And I said, well, I know he
didn't.
And -- so -- but you're so sure. I
said, was you driving the squad car that
hauled -- of course, he was a policeman back
at that time. I said, were you -- were you
driving that squad car that hauled the man
who shot him away? And he hung up on me.
Q. He hung up on you?
A. So I don't know whether he was
driving the squad car or not.
Q. An unanswered question. Have the
police ever questioned you or asked you about
this?
A. No, sir.
Q. Any government agency ever come to
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 1255
you and ask you about this?
A. No, sir. The only one I talked to
was the FBI that -- that I was -- I mean, I
knew him when I seen him. I knew him because
he had been out at the depot back when I was
in security. Well, of course, we had several
FBI's out there that would have things that
come up. So I just happened to know -- I
knew him when I seen him. And he was the one
that I brought in that -- and I never -- and
I never ever saw him since, so --
Q. So it's your testimony here today
that Paul Butler died being thrown out of a
high-speed automobile?
A. As far as I know he did.
Q. On the -- on the night of the
assassination of Martin Luther King on the
4th of April, 1968?
A. Well, they said about 10 o'clock the
next morning when they found him. In other
words, this happened late in the afternoon
that Dr. Martin Luther King got shot. And
this was some time the next morning. I don't
know what time he was throwed out of it. Of
course, he might have been throwed out that
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 1256
night. But his car was found at the cab
company, and he couldn't be found at that
time because they had called around trying to
contact him.
And then at about 10:30 that's when
they said they found his body.
Q. They found his body the next morning?
A. Right, about 10:30.
Q. About 10:30. Some time prior to
that --
A. He was throwed out.
Q. -- he was thrown out of the
automobile -- high-speed automobile
supposedly. And you never saw him again?
A. No, sir.
MR. PEPPER: Thank you,
Mr. Ward. Nothing further.
CROSS-EXAMINATION
BY MR. GARRISON:
Q. Mr. Ward, you first called me a few
years ago and pretty much told me this same
version, didn't you, that you had tried to
tell the police about it and different ones,
but no one would listen to you?
A. Yes.
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 1257
Q. Basically. Let me ask you -- now,
when you were at the airport with Mr. Butler,
did you -- did he tell this same version to
the lieutenant and the other officers that
were there? You heard him tell them what had
happened?
A. Yes, sir. Because I was standing
there, and he told them practically the same
thing he did me.
Q. And he told them he had seen someone
get in the police car and leave and they were
escorted away in a squad car?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And they were writing that down all
that time; is that right, sir?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. You had tried to make this known for
some several years, and no one would listen
to you, didn't you?
A. That's right.
MR. GARRISON: That's all I
have.
REDIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. PEPPER:
Q. Mr. Ward, an author recently -- well,
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 1258
the last year or so wrote a book establishing
James Earl Ray as the -- the killer in this
case in his view. Have you been interviewed
by any author who has published and who is
interested in this case?
A. No, sir, I haven't.
Q. You never told that story to anyone?
A. No, sir.
MR. PEPPER: Thanks very much,
Mr. Ward. Nothing further.
THE COURT: All right. You may
stand down, sir. You can remain in the
courtroom or you can leave.
(Witness excused.)
THE COURT: Call your next
witness.
MR. PEPPER: Plaintiffs call
Mr. Raymond Kohlman to the stand.
RAYMOND KOHLMAN,
Having been first duly sworn, was examined
and testified as follows:
DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. PEPPER:
Q. Good afternoon, Mr. Kohlman.
A. Good afternoon.
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 1259
Q. Thank you for joining us.
A. Certainly.
Q. Would you please state your full name
and address for the record.
A. Raymond D. Kohlman, K O H L M A N.
And my office is at 7 North Main Street,
Attleboro, Massachusetts.
Q. And what do you do for a living,
Mr. Kohlman?
A. I'm an attorney.
Q. And where are you licensed to
practice law?
A. Presently in the Commonwealth of
Massachusetts.
Q. And have you, in the course of these
proceedings and in preparation for this
trial, assisted the plaintiffs with certain
investigative work?
A. Yes, I have.
Q. And would you tell the Court and the
jury what your assignment was in terms of
this matter.
A. I was asked to go to the public
library and to determine the listing for a
Betty Butler or a Paul L. Butler, either
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 1260
separately or together. During that
investigation, I found -- I did it from 1966
through 1970 -- those years in the Polk
reference books.
Q. Let me show you a page from Polk,
Page 210, 1966. Is that the page that you
photocopied from Polk for 1966?
A. I can't see it too clearly. But it
is a page because I put -- specifically put a
yellow marking on it.
MR. PEPPER: Let's -- let's do
this. Let's pass these up to Mr. Kohlman so
that he can look at them.
A. Yes, that's Page 210, 1966.
Q. (BY MR. PEPPER) Right. And would you
read the highlighted insert there?
A. It's Paul (Betty), driver, Yellow
Cab, H, which is the house, 339 East South
Parkway.
Q. Okay. That is the address of Paul
and Betty Butler in 1966 listed in Polk
publication, and Paul is listed as a Yellow
Cab driver?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. I'd like to show you the next page.
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 1261
A. This is, again, Polk. All these
pages would be from Polk. 1967. It's Page
158. The listing is for Paul -- again,
(Betty), and it is 2639 -- it doesn't give a
street. This street is -- it doesn't show up
here, Apartment P1.
Q. Okay. Let me ask you to look at
this.
A. This is from '68. It's Page 157.
And the listing is Betty L. (wid. -- which is
the abbreviation for widow -- Paul), branch
manager, Gridiron Systems, 2639 Central
Avenue, Apartment P1.
Q. May we have that back so we can zoom
in for the jury. That listing then is 1968,
and it shows Paul -- it shows Betty is a
widow -- listed as a widow of Paul.
A. Yes, sir.
Q. So for the first time we see Betty
listed as a widow of Paul Butler.
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Here's the next one.
A. This is Page 163 from 1969. And the
listing here is for Betty L. (wid., Paul)
branch manager, Gridiron System, 2639 Central
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 1262
Avenue, Apartment P1.
Q. This is another listing for the year
1969. Betty is still listed a widow of
Paul --
A. Yes, sir.
Q. -- at that point in time?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Now, it's your testimony that you
extracted and copied each of these pages.
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Let me show you this, Mr. Kohlman.
Would you tell the jury what you're holding?
A. This is a request for a death
certificate that was submitted by me to the
Shelby County -- Memphis and Shelby County
Health Department. I went in there to seek
certification of the death of Paul L.
Butler. After the clerk went through 1968 --
and I just dealt with 1968 -- she determined
that there was no death certificate for that
year for Paul L. Butler, and she signed and
dated and gave her clerical number.
Q. Mr. Kohlman, did you also call the --
a similar agency of the State of Arkansas?
A. Yes. Because of where the body
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 1263
supposedly -- where the murder supposedly
occurred, the cab was found halfway between
here and Arkansas, wherever, I contacted --
actually, I went over to Crittenden County
Health Department. They don't keep records
back that far. They suggested I get a hold
of Little Rock Vital Records Department.
I did that yesterday morning and
spoke with -- I had to speak with a
supervisor, a Mrs. Carson. And she went
through -- she stated that she went through
the records for 1968 looking for
Mr. Butler -- Paul L.
Q. So is it your testimony then that you
could not find any official records of the
death of Mr. Paul Butler either in Tennessee
or in Arkansas?
A. Correct. There is -- as far as the
official records are concerned, Memphis/
Shelby County, no record of death for
Mr. Butler. And as far as Tennessee is
concerned, for 1968 there was no record of
Mr. Butler's demise.
Q. Thank you, Mr. Kohlman.
A. Thank you.
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 1264
MR. PEPPER: Nothing further,
Your Honor.
MR. GARRISON: Your Honor, I
have no questions.
THE COURT: You may stand down,
sir.
THE WITNESS: Thank you.
(Witness excused.)
THE COURT: All right.
MR. PEPPER: Your Honor,
plaintiffs have five minutes of film
testimony of a witness from California who
could not be here. We tried desperately to
get him here. He is a former newspaper
journalist for the New York Times. And it
was taken in the television trial
proceeding. He was cross-examined by former
U.S. Attorney, Hickman Ewing. In the
beginning he's giving testimony under direct
examination. We would like to play that.
And we also move at this time that
the documentation of Mr. Kohlman we covered
on -- for the plaintiffs be admitted into
evidence.
THE COURT: Any objections?
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 1265
MR. GARRISON: No, Your Honor.
THE COURT: All right.
(Whereupon said documents were
marked as Collective Exhibit Number 24.)
MR. PEPPER: The name of the
witness, Your Honor, is Mr. Earl Caldwell.
(Whereupon the videotape was
played for the Court and Jury.)
FROM THE VIDEO:
DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. PEPPER:
Q. Back in April of 1968, for which
paper were you writing then?
A. I was writing for the New York Times.
Q. You were a New York Times reporter?
A. Yes.
Q. And were you given an assignment to
Memphis, Tennessee, in April of '68?
A. Yes, I was.
Q. And what was your -- what was your
assignment?
A. Well, at that time Claude Sitton
(phonetic) was the national editor of the
paper, and I was working as a national
correspondent. And I was told to go to
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 1266
Memphis, Tennessee. And we had a meeting.
And at this meeting he told me that he had
gotten information that Dr. King now had
people as a part -- that were a part of his
group that he couldn't control. Said he
could no longer control his people. And
that -- he explained some of that to me. And
I remember the last words were he wanted me
to go to Memphis and nail Dr. King.
Q. And now we're on the -- we're on the
last hour of Dr. King's life.
A. Right.
Q. And at 6 o'clock -- at 6 p.m., where
are you standing and what are you doing?
A. At that moment I heard what I was
sure was a bomb blast. I ran to the -- I ran
to -- into the doorway to see what happened.
Because I was sure the motel had been
bombed. As it happened, the first thing I
saw when I looked out the door was a figure
in the bushes directly -- I would say
directly across to the right of where I was
looking when I looked out.
Q. And what was that figure doing?
A. Well, I couldn't tell. He was doing
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 1267
something in the bushes. I didn't know what
he was doing. At that moment it was like he
was the key to what had happened in my mind.
Q. Has any FBI agent ever asked you what
you saw?
A. No. No one asked me ever. No FBI
agents, no local police, no authorities at
all.
CROSS-EXAMINATION
BY MR. EWING:
Q. How did you know to go to the
Lorraine Motel?
A. Because I had called ahead to
Memphis -- to the SCLC headquarters telling
them who I was. I wanted to know where he
was staying, and I was going to stay at the
same motel.
Q. Then would you have talked to them on
the 1st or the 31st?
A. Yes, I -- all those days.
Q. And you -- you found out from them --
A. Yes.
Q. -- that they were going to stay at
the Lorraine when they came to Memphis.
A. Yes.
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 1268
Q. Would you come over here and approach
this chart?
A. Right. Right.
Q. Point to where you say you were
staying at the hotel -- or motel.
A. (Indicating) I would have -- I think
my room would have been about like right in
here or something like that.
Q. So you come to the door when you hear
the bomb blast and you're standing there in
your shorts --
A. Right.
Q. -- and you look --
A. Right.
Q. And where do you say this man was in
the bushes?
A. He was right here in the heavy part
of the bushes. These bushes, mind you -- I
say "bushes." They were pretty high. They
were really high. They were like -- they
weren't bushes. You say bushes, like knee-
high. They're much higher than that.
Q. Could you stand right over here so
everybody can see you. Would you describe
what you saw the man do. In other words, get
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 1269
down there and let's go through what you say
you saw out there.
A. Well, okay. I -- mind you, there are
these bushes there. And I -- when I'm seeing
this guy for the first time, he's in some
kind of a position. But I can't tell whether
he's like this or whether he's like this or
whether he's like this. I really don't
know. But he was in some kind of a position
that was not a stand-up position.
Q. Okay. Did you see him with a gun?
A. No.
Q. So when you see him and he's in the
bushes, is he twisting toward this way or is
he --
A. No.
Q. -- twisting this way?
A. When I seen him first, he was looking
at something over towards --
Q. Towards the motel?
A. Towards the motel, yes, right.
Q. Did he look up when he twisted?
A. He was still looking over to the
balcony.
Q. Was this man white or black?
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 1270
A. He was white.
Q. What was he wearing?
A. I don't know. I thought it was some
kind of a coveralls or something. I said --
in my notes I said I thought he was in
coveralls or something like that. I couldn't
really be sure.
Q. Over the years, up until recently,
you -- were you aware that the House
Committee looked into this?
A. Yes, I was.
Q. And did you -- did you offer to tell
them what you saw?
A. I didn't think it was my place to
offer to them. But I did write in the
newspaper and saw to it it was published --
what I knew and why I knew it.
MR. EWING: Thank you.
MR. PEPPER: Your Honor, that
being the last witness available to the --
(End of the videotape portion.)
MR. PEPPER: Plaintiffs move
admission of that testimony.
THE COURT: Any objection?
MR. GARRISON: I don't have any
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 1271
objection.
THE COURT: All right.
(Whereupon said videotape was
marked as Trial Exhibit Number 25.)
MR. PEPPER: Plaintiffs next
witness will take a little bit of time, Your
Honor. Would the Court like to break?
THE COURT: Okay. We'll break
for lunch and resume at 2:30.
(Lunch Recess.)
THE COURT: Bring the jury out,
please, sir.
THE SHERIFF: Yes, sir.
(Jury In.)
THE COURT: All right. We're
ready.
MR. PEPPER: Yes, Your Honor.
Plaintiffs call their first witness, Mr. Roy
Grabow.
ROY A. GRABOW,
Having been first duly sworn, was examined
and testified as follows:
DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. PEPPER:
Q. Good afternoon, Mr. Grabow. Thank
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 1272
you for coming all this way up from
Mississippi to be here.
A. Thank you.
Q. Would you state your full name and
address for the record.
A. Roy Allen Grabow.
Q. Would you please pull up a bit in the
chair there.
A. Roy Allen Grabow.
THE COURT: Spell your last
name, please.
THE WITNESS: G R A B O W.
THE COURT: Thank you.
THE WITNESS: Thank you.
Q. (BY MR. PEPPER) And what is your
address, please.
A. 1206 Church Street, Boonville,
Mississippi.
Q. And we're taking you somewhat out of
turn, Mr. Grabow, because of an illness of
your -- your wife.
A. Right.
Q. Can you tell the Court what is --
what is the problem -- medical problem?
A. From a car wreck.
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 1273
Q. And what is her present physical
condition -- Glenda Grabow's present physical
condition?
A. Her rib is cracked, broke, and it's
pressing against her and she's bleeding
internally a little bit.
Q. Has she been instructed not to be
transported here?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. What I'd like to do is move ahead
with you in this testimony to the extent of
your personal knowledge.
A. Yes, sir.
Q. What you know, not what you have been
told or know from her but what you know
personally.
A. Right. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you live in Houston, Texas, with
your wife in the early 1960's?
A. Yes, sir, I did.
Q. And at that time when you were living
in Houston, Texas, what was the -- where was
the area where you resided?
A. Around Hobby Airport.
Q. Around the Hobby Airport.
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 1274
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And at that time did you see a -- an
individual who has been described in these
proceedings as -- as Raul?
A. Yes, I did.
Q. Let me, just for the purposes of
identification, show you a spread of
photographs. Do you see a likeness of Raul
in -- amongst those images?
A. Yes, I do.
Q. Which one is Raul as you knew him?
A. Number 4.
Q. Number --
A. 4.
Q. Number 4.
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Second hand --
A. Middle one on the right, yes, sir.
Q. Thank you. Where did you see this
person in Houston?
A. Oh, where I used to gas up on the --
the service station where I used to gas up at
on College Street.
Q. Did your wife also -- to the best of
your knowledge, did your wife also know this
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 1275
person and become acquainted with him?
A. Yes, she did.
Q. All right. Mr. Grabow, I'm going to
show you two affidavits that have been
executed before a notary by Glenda Grabow and
ask you if you were present when these
affidavits were sworn -- written and sworn by
your wife.
A. Yes, sir.
MR. PEPPER: Okay. I'll move
their admission, Your Honor.
(Whereupon said documents were
marked as Trial Exhibit Number 26.)
Q. (BY MR. PEPPER) I'm going to show you
a series of photographs and ask you if you
recognize the individuals and/or the places
here. Do you recognize the two people in
that photograph?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And who are they?
A. Amaro and my daughter, Connie.
Q. That's your daughter Connie on the
right, and the other man is --
A. Amaro.
Q. Amaro. And to the best of your
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 1276
knowledge, what is the relationship between
Amaro and Raul?
A. Either a cousin or an uncle. I'm not
real certain, but it's one of the two.
Q. Some relative, cousin or another.
A. Yes.
Q. Did you see much of Amaro?
A. Quite often.
Q. Quite a bit?
A. I knew him quite well, yes.
Q. All right. I'm going to show you
another photograph. Get these photographs
right. Who are the people in this
photograph?
A. That's my daughter, Connie, on the
right, me, Amaro and my wife Glenda.
Q. Let's eliminate any confusion. Where
is your daughter Connie? Is this --
A. That's Connie.
Q. This is your daughter Connie. And
this is you?
A. That's me.
Q. This is --
A. My wife, Glenda, and Amaro.
Q. And this is Amaro here. Where was
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 1277
that taken, do you know?
A. Tokyo Garden.
Q. I'm sorry.
A. Tokyo Garden.
Q. Tokyo Garden?
A. Restaurant, yes.
Q. Where is that?
A. Houston, Texas, in west town.
Q. And about what time was that
photograph taken?
A. You mean date or --
Q. Yes, the approximate date.
A. It was in -- probably about '73.
Q. It was in the early 70's?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you recognize that building?
A. Yes, I do. Yes, I do. It belongs to
Felix Tareno.
Q. It -- or it belonged to --
A. Well, yes.
Q. -- then Felix Tareno.
A. Yes.
Q. Had you ever seen the person whose
been identified as Raul on those premises?
A. Yes, I have.
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 1278
Q. Where have you seen him on those
premises?
A. On the porch.
Q. On the porch. Was that building
the -- to the best of your personal
knowledge, was that building the scene of
some unpleasantness involving your wife --
A. Yes, it was.
Q. -- and Raul?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. It was.
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Was there a time when you and your
wife went together to visit Attorney Percy
Foreman?
A. Yes, there was.
Q. Where did you visit Attorney Foreman?
A. Where? At his office.
Q. At his office?
A. Yes.
Q. And what was the purpose of that
visit?
A. I hired him for my brother.
Q. Sorry.
A. I hired him for my brother.
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 1279
Q. Your brother had a --
A. Case, yes, sir.
Q. Had a case. And when you went into
Attorney Foreman's office, did you notice
anything of particular interest concerning
this case?
A. They -- they had some books and
papers in the office pertaining to it, yes,
sir.
Q. Pertaining to Mr. Foreman's
representation?
A. Yes. Yes.
Q. And did your -- did Attorney Foreman
give your wife a drawing of himself?
A. Yes, he did.
Q. And was that drawing signed by him?
A. Yes, it was. To her from him.
Q. Right. And the subject of your --
of -- of your visit and the relationship with
Foreman is covered in these affidavits sworn
by your wife?
A. Yes.
Q. Is that right?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Now, when did you leave Houston,
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 1280
Texas, and move to Mississippi?
A. When -- we come down in 1980, stayed
for six months, sold my house in Houston.
And went back to Houston, finalized it, and
moved to Mississippi in '81 -- 1981.
Q. Mr. Grabow, why did you leave
Houston, Texas?
A. Threats.
Q. Sorry.
A. Threats. Mr. Foreman said to get out
of town or we would be dead within a year.
Q. Let's back up on that again. There
were threats to you?
A. Threats to my wife and me.
Q. Threats to your wife and you?
A. Yes.
Q. And Mr. Foreman told you what?
A. To get out of town within a year or
we would be dead.
Q. Get out of town within the year or
you'd be dead?
A. That's right.
Q. Who wanted to kill you and your wife,
Mr. Grabow?
A. Well, I don't know. From what he
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 1281
told my wife, it was from Raul.
Q. What did that all have to do with,
these threats? Do you know what all that had
to do with?
A. What do you mean?
Q. What was behind the threats? What
caused the threats?
A. My wife --
Q. From your knowledge, what was behind
it?
A. I don't really know. From what --
this is what my wife knows -- most of it.
Mine would just be what I know from her.
Q. Well, we're not going to ask you to
testify about that.
A. But I know it was pertaining to Raul
and the Ray case.
Q. Something to do with Raul and the
Ray case?
A. Right. I know that much.
Q. Did there come a time in Houston,
Texas -- after you left you sold your house
and -- finally in what year?
A. In -- we finally sold it in '81.
Q. 1981?
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 1282
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you go back there in subsequent
years to Houston at all?
A. Yes.
Q. To visit?
A. I went down and worked for a while on
account of my daughter, Connie. She had a
lot of problems -- medical problems. I went
back to where a good hospital was.
Q. All right.
A. I worked down there for about five or
six months on a job that --
Q. At one point later on when you were
living in Mississippi, did you become aware
again of the man you've identified as Raul?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And how did that happen?
A. My wife called him and talked to him.
Q. Your wife called him and talked to
him. How did your wife get his telephone
number? How did she become aware of where he
was?
A. Look in the phone book, called
information to find him.
Q. How did she know which phone book to
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 1283
look in? Did someone show her some
information, or how did she become aware of
his presence and where he was living?
A. I don't know exactly. I don't know
exactly.
Q. But somehow she became aware --
A. Yes.
Q. -- of his presence.
A. Right.
Q. And somehow she obtained his phone
number.
A. Right.
Q. But you weren't present when she did
that, or you don't know exactly how she
obtained it.
A. No.
Q. Okay.
A. There was some things she kept from
me.
Q. You testify to what you know, please,
sir.
A. Yes, sir. That's what I'm doing.
Q. Now, Mr. Grabow, I'm going to show
you an original telephone bill dated the 5th
of May, 1995.
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 1284
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Is that your telephone bill?
A. Yes, it is.
Q. For that period of time?
A. Yes, sir. Yes, it is.
Q. It has your phone number on there?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Do you see a telephone call made on
the 20th of April?
A. Yes, I do.
Q. What time of day was that call made?
A. What time of day? 12:54 p.m.
Q. And how long was that call?
A. Six minutes.
Q. Were you present when that call was
made?
A. Yes, I was.
Q. And who was that call made to?
A. Raul in Yonkers, New York.
Q. And who made the call to Raul?
A. My wife, Glenda.
Q. I'm not asking you to comment on even
one side of the conversation. Did you have
the impression that this telephone call --
that the parties speaking on this telephone
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 1285
call, one of them was your wife, knew the
other party?
A. Oh, yes.
Q. That they were familiar?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Would your wife ever talk on the
telephone with someone for six minutes she
didn't know?
A. No.
Q. Or didn't know her?
A. No. She didn't like to talk on the
phone anyway. Very seldom.
Q. But in this instance she was talking
on the phone for six minutes.
A. Yes, sir.
Q. That's the second longest call on
this -- on this bill, isn't it?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. I'm going to show you a copy of this
bill, and we've blocked out Raul's telephone
number.
A. Okay.
Q. I would like you to compare the copy
with the original and tell us whether they
are identical except for the redacting of
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 1286
Raul's telephone number.
A. Yes, they are.
Q. Well, please, would you look at all
of the pages.
A. Oh, all of the pages. Okay. Yes,
sir.
MR. PEPPER: That being the
case, Your Honor, plaintiffs move the
admission of the copy with the redacted
telephone number.
THE COURT: All right.
(Whereupon said document was
marked as Trial Exhibit Number 27.)
Q. (BY MR. PEPPER) Mr. Grabow, have any
investigators -- official investigators of
the United States Government or any police
authority discussed with you or your wife
information that you may have about this man,
Raul?
A. About -- lately or --
Q. At any time.
A. No. I think the -- the men from
homicide in Memphis here came down to talk to
us one time.
Q. Somebody did come down?
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 1287
A. Yes, sir.
Q. How long ago was that?
A. Last year.
Q. Did you tell or did your wife tell
everything --
A. Yes, she did.
Q. -- that she knows about this?
A. Yes, she did.
Q. Did you hear anything further --
A. No.
Q. -- with respect --
A. We have come back up and talked to
them because some of the things she said was
changed on the affidavit. She made an oral
affidavit. And when he typed it out and
showed it, we had to change a lot because
some of the things was changed on there.
Q. The statement that she gave was not
the same statement that was printed that she
was asked to sign?
A. Yes, some things were.
Q. It was different?
A. Yes, some things.
Q. Did you effect those changes? Did
you make -- ensure that they made those
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 1288
changes?
A. What we could. What we could, yes.
It took so long. She don't read so fast.
And it was taking an awful long time for her
to. So we changed what she could.
Q. This Court has heard evidence that
your wife has given a lengthy, almost auto-
biographical, statement to an English film
producer, Jack Saltman. Do you know that
that's the case?
A. Well, it's -- I don't know what it
was. If I understood it -- we thought we was
working with a lawyer and stuff. And she
talked to him a long time. And I think they
was trying to make some kind of movie deal or
something. I don't know what it was.
Q. So they took a statement?
A. Yes, they did. Yes, they did.
Q. You thought you were working --
A. Yes, sir.
Q. -- with whom?
A. I thought we were working with the
lawyers for -- attorneys for --
Q. Attorneys for whom?
A. The Rays. I don't know. Ray's
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 1289
attorneys, I guess. What we understood is
they just kept running us around keeping us
away from him.
Q. And that went on for a period of
time, didn't it?
A. Yes, it did.
Q. But your wife has discussed with you
all of these events and everything that she
knows at this point in time.
A. Oh, yes.
Q. I'm not going to ask you to say what
these are, but she has discussed these things
with you.
A. Yes, she has.
Q. And whatever it is she has told you
and has discussed with you, has she ever
changed her story over all these years --
A. No.
Q. -- in terms of what has happened to
her?
A. No.
Q. And what has happened to her is
reflected in these affidavits that we have
put into evidence?
A. Right. There are no changes.
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, |