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747 THE CIRCUIT COURT OF SHELBY COUNTY, TENNESSEE THIRTIETH JUDICIAL DISTRICT AT MEMPHIS _____________________________________________
CORETTA SCOTT KING, MARTIN LUTHER KING, III, BERNICE KING, DEXTER SCOTT KING and YOLANDA KING,
Plaintiffs,
Vs. Case No. 97242-4 T.D.
LOYD JOWERS and OTHER UNKNOWN CO-CONSPIRATORS,
Defendants. _____________________________________________
BE IT REMEMBERED that the above-captioned cause came on for Trial on this, the 23rd day of November, 1999, in the above Court, before the Honorable James E. Swearengen, Judge presiding, when and where the following proceedings were had, to wit:
VOLUME VI
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER & WEATHERFORD COURT REPORTERS 22nd Floor, One Commerce Square Memphis, Tennessee 38103 (901) 529-1999
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 748
- APPEARANCES -
For the Plaintiffs:
MR. WILLIAM PEPPER Attorney at Law 575 Madison Avenue, Suite 1006 New York, New York 10022 (212) 605-0515
For the Defendant:
MR. LEWIS K. GARRISON, Sr. Attorney at Law 100 North Main Street, Suite 1025 Memphis, Tennessee 38103 (901) 527-6445
Reported by:
MS. MARGIE J. ROUTHEAUX Registered Professional Reporter Daniel, Dillinger, Dominski, Richberger & Weatherford 2200 One Commerce Square Memphis, Tennessee 38103
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 749
- INDEX - WITNESS: PAGE/LINE NUMBER
JERRY FRANCISCO
DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. PEPPER:........................ 751/16
CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. GARRISON:...................... 768/09
JOHN BILLINGS
DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. PEPPER:........................ 773/15
CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. GARRISON:...................... 819/04
ROYCE WILBURN
DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. PEPPER:........................ 821/03
CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. GARRISON:...................... 829/23
SIDNEY J. CARTHEW (By video)
DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. PEPPER:........................ 835/12
JOE B. HODGES
DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. PEPPER:........................ 858/17
CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. GARRISON:...................... 879/25
REDIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. PEPPER:........................ 883/17
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 750
- INDEX CONTINUED -
JAMES W. SMITH
DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. PEPPER:........................ 888/25
BARBARA REIS
DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. PEPPER:........................ 905/19
CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. GARRISON:...................... 915/07
TRIAL EXHIBITS PAGE
6 ----------------- 761 7 ----------------- 773 8 ----------------- 803 9 ----------------- 808 10 ----------------- 827 11 ----------------- 829 12 ----------------- 857 13 ----------------- 888
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 751
P R O C E E D I N G S
THE COURT: Are we ready for the
jury?
MR. PEPPER: Ready, Your Honor.
(Jury enters. )
THE COURT: Good morning. We
are we ready to resume the trial, I think.
Mr. Pepper, call your next witness.
MR. PEPPER: Thank you, Your
Honor. Plaintiffs call Dr. Jerry Francisco
to the stand.
DR. JERRY T. FRANCISCO,
Having been first duly sworn, was examined
and testified as follows:
DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. PEPPER:
Q. Good morning, Dr. Francisco.
A. Good morning.
Q. Thank you very much for joining us
this morning. For the record, please, would
you state your full name and address.
A. Jerry Thomas Francisco, Memphis,
Tennessee.
Q. And what do you presently do,
Dr. Francisco?
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 752
A. As little as possible. I'm retired.
Q. And what was your previous
employment?
A. I was professor of pathology at the
University of Tennessee, County Medical
Examiner for Shelby County.
Q. And what position did you hold in
April of 1968?
A. I was essentially in the same
position -- in pathology at the University of
Tennessee and county medical examiner for
Shelby County.
Q. Would you tell us roughly, prior to
April 4, 1968, how many autopsies had you
performed?
A. I have no idea of the precise number,
but it would be measured in thousands.
Q. Would many of those have been
caused -- those deaths have been caused by
homicide?
A. Yes.
Q. And would many of those homicide
deaths have been caused by gunshot wounds?
A. Yes.
Q. And would a number of those gunshot
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 753
wounds have been rifle shots?
A. Well, the rifle is an unusual weapon,
and it's an uncommon form of gunshot -- at
least in civilian practice.
Q. All right. But did you have previous
experience with respect to deaths caused by
rifle wounds?
A. Yes.
Q. When were you first notified of the
death of Martin Luther -- well, the shooting
of Martin Luther King, Jr.?
A. It was probably from the -- from the
media.
Q. You heard it on the media?
A. That's correct.
Q. Do you recall was that shortly after
the event?
A. Yes.
Q. And what did you do when you heard
about the shooting?
A. Well, the shooting occurred on a
Thursday night. And Thursday night in the
Department of Pathology is a traditional time
in which the faculty gather to have what we
call a conference. It was called the
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 754
Thursday night conference in common
parlance.
And several members would usually
get together to have dinner prior to the
conference which started at 7 o'clock. A
friend of mine -- we were having dinner at
what was then the faculty club when we heard
the news that Dr. King had been shot. And we
came to the Institute of Pathology at about
6:45, 7 o'clock, knowing that he was dead,
and proceeded to do the things that needed to
be done.
The conference was cancelled. The
members left with the admonition if I needed
help to give them a call and they would be
glad to assist.
Q. Did you eventually perform the
autopsy on Martin Luther King, Jr.?
A. I did.
Q. Do you recall the date that you
performed that autopsy?
A. No. It was the day he died.
Q. Dr. Francisco, let me provide you
with a copy of this autopsy report just to
assist in the refreshing of your
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 755
recollection.
A. All right.
Q. Okay. Do you see the date of that
report?
A. Yes.
Q. When then was the autopsy performed?
A. April the 4th, 1968.
Q. And your report was dated April 11,
1968?
A. Well, the finalization of this report
was April the 11th, 1968.
Q. Had any work begun on the autopsy
before you arrived, or were you there right
at the beginning and supervised the entire
procedure?
A. The latter. The autopsy does not
start until the pathologist arrives.
Q. Were there any assistants present at
the time?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you recall who they were,
Dr. Francisco?
A. No.
Q. That's understandable. It's a long
time ago. Were there any other persons
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 756
observing the autopsy that you recall?
A. Well, they were not really
observing. There was a law enforcement
officer inside the autopsy suite with a shot
gun, a law enforcement officer outside the
autopsy suite with a shotgun. But as far as
observing the autopsy, no, they were not.
That's not their business. That's not their
purpose. That's not their mission in life.
They played no active role in the autopsy.
Q. Did you employ the standard
procedures for the performance of this
autopsy?
A. Yes.
Q. Are procedures -- do procedures
vary? Are they different in terms of a rifle
wound as opposed to any other type of
gunshot wound?
A. No. There's much -- there's as much
standardization of an autopsy as there is in
trying a case. There's certain overarching
principles that are applied. But in the
detail, there are significant changes and
variations that are professional judgements
that each pathologist makes during his
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 757
autopsy.
Q. That's very helpful if you would
continue to explain these procedures to the
jury. We're calling you, of course, out of
turn. You were originally slated to be a
background witness so that the jury can be
aware of the procedure and the cause of death
and the nature of the wound and so forth.
So it's very helpful that you will address
the jury on these matters.
Did you dictate the -- your
observations as you performed the autopsy?
A. I think so, yes.
Q. And those would have been reflected
in your final report?
A. That's correct.
Q. Could you describe for the jury the
condition of the body when you observed it at
the beginning as you recall?
A. I don't understand the question.
Q. Well, can you describe the --
basically can you describe the condition of
the body that you were about to perform the
autopsy on. What did you observe in terms of
the wound that had been inflicted?
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 758
A. Well, it was a gunshot wound to the
jaw which had been surgically altered at the
emergency room in an attempt to stop the
bleeding. Is that what you had in mind?
Q. Yes, that's right. And that was
the -- that was the entry wound?
A. That's correct.
Q. Did you notice an exit wound?
A. There was no exit wound. The bullet
was retained within the body.
Q. To the best of your recollection and
your knowledge at this point, was that entry
wound a single wound?
A. In contrast to a double wound?
Q. In contrast to multiple wounds, yes.
A. Yes, it was a single wound, right.
Q. And where was the -- to the best,
again, of your recollection, where was the
fatal bullet lodged in the body?
A. It was beneath the skin in the back
on the left side.
Q. Inside the circle there is a shaded
raised area. Do you recognize that as the
lodging -- the place where the bullet lodged
as you've described it?
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 759
A. It could be. I can't orient myself
with that photograph.
Q. But that could be?
A. Well, I don't know what the
photograph is. I have no idea. I didn't
take it.
Q. The photograph is a photograph of the
body of Martin Luther King on the autopsy
table. And that's the lower left shoulder
blade.
A. Could you turn the photograph around,
please. One more turn. Yes, sir, that is
the correct orientation of the photograph,
and that is a photograph that could be the
location of the bullet beneath the skin.
Q. That is the bullet that could be the
bullet beneath the skin that you have
described?
A. That's correct.
Q. In the course of your performing this
autopsy, were you able to determine the path
of that bullet from entry to the final point
of lodging?
A. Yes.
Q. Could you describe the path of that
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 760
bullet for us, please.
A. Front to back, above, downward, right
to left.
Q. Were you able to determine if any --
what -- in the path of the bullet if it hit
any interior organs of the deceased's body?
A. Yes.
Q. Would you describe those for us.
A. The right mandible, or jaw bone, the
right vertebral artery which is the artery
running from the arch of the aorta up into
the head, the spine, T1 and C7, the spinal
cord, upper cervical -- lower cervical, upper
thoracic, the submucosal hemorrhage to the
voice box, the larynx. This is the force of
the bullet passing through. The force around
the bullet path damaged the larynx, and there
was a bruise or hematoma to the upper right
lobe.
Again, this was the force of the
bullet. There are circumferential forces
around the path of a bullet that will bruise
or damage organs not actually hit by the
bullet but in juxtaposition to this bullet
path.
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 761
Q. Thank you. And what time did you
determine was the time of -- the actual time
of death?
A. The autopsy does not determine the
time of death. The time of death in most
cases is determined by the time a person is
pronounced. And that's a historical fact.
The autopsy does not, independent of this
historical fact, elaborate and determine a
time of death. The intimation that we had
was some time in the p.m., in the
neighborhood of 4, 5, 6, 7 p.m.
Q. While he was -- if he was shot at
6:01, presuming that the time of death would
have been some time after that, between 6 and
7 p.m.
A. Again, those are historical facts.
And the time of death is determined by the
historical facts, not by autopsy procedures.
MR. PEPPER: Plaintiffs move to
enter the autopsy report.
(Whereupon said document was
marked as Trial Exhibit Number 6.)
Q. (BY MR. PEPPER) Dr. Francisco, didn't
you trace the path of the bullet in the
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 762
body? Did you actually conduct a tracing
procedure with respect to the path of this
bullet?
A. Yes.
Q. And it is as -- and how did you --
how did you actually conduct that tracing
procedure?
A. By looking. It was not difficult to
see what the bullet had passed through in its
passage through the body with the autopsy
techniques because the organs are removed,
the vital structures are removed. It's not
difficult to see what the path of the bullet
was. It's a relatively short path. The
entry point was clearly visualized.
The terminal point was clearly
visualized. And the bullet generally travels
in straight lines through the body. There
are very unusual circumstances in which the
bullet goes in something other than straight
lines. But bullets do not go zig, zag, zig,
zag. They just don't do that. That's not
the way bullets travel in bodies.
Q. Unless they're deflected. As you
said, unless they're deflected by --
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 763
A. Well, bullets are hard to deflect.
If the bullet velocity is low enough that a
body part can deflect it, generally the
bullet stops. There are rare
circumstances -- for instance, there are
circumstances in which the bullet enters the
skull and because of low velocity of the
bullet, it will travel along the inner path
of the skull coming around to this side.
But bullets do not entire here and
go over the top of the skull and come out on
this side. They just don't do it like that.
Science fiction notwithstanding, they just
don't do it that way.
Q. Thank you. Did there come a time,
Dr. Francisco, in 1969 when you were asked to
testify before a guilty plea proceeding
presided over by the Criminal Court of Shelby
County?
A. Yes.
Q. And was that proceeding held on the
10th of March, 1969?
A. I presume so. Again, I don't have
records of that date and time. But at
whatever time the records reflect, there was
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 764
testimony in the criminal courts of Shelby
County to the guilty plea of James Earl Ray,
and it was necessary to establish cause of
death by testimony.
Q. Dr. Francisco, let me pass to you
for -- again, for refreshing your
recollection, the relevant pages of your
testimony before the guilty plea proceeding.
A. All right.
Q. It begins on Page 30, and you're
subject to direct examination by Mr. Duire.
A. I'm sorry. Was that a question?
Q. No, it's a statement. Now, moving on
to Page 32 -- if you would move to Page 32,
after discussion of the cause of injury, how
death occurred, you were asked: "Did you
recover anything from the body,
Dr. Francisco?" And your answer?
A. "Yes."
Q. The question was: "I'm going to show
you an object and ask you if you can
identify" -- "and ask you if you can identify
those, Dr. Francisco." Your answer was --
A. "Yes."
Q. "And what is that, please." And then
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 765
you were shown, I believe -- do you recall
this photograph of bullet fragments that you
were shown?
A. I've seen that photograph more than
once. Do you have the bullet?
Q. We don't -- we don't have the bullet
in this courtroom. But do you recognize that
as a depiction of what they showed you on
that day?
A. Well, that certainly could be, yes.
That's the jacket and the two pieces of lead
that were present in that bullet. So they
certainly could be the bullet that I was
shown. However, there is a marking on the
jacket that is the autopsy number that
defines the jacket as the jacket that I
removed. And I cannot see that from this
photograph.
Q. But the question was at that time --
if this is a correct depiction -- this is the
bullet that was removed from the body at the
time of autopsy. And you answered -- you
answered: "This is the bullet that was
removed from the body at the time of
autopsy."
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 766
A. Let me make something very clear.
This photograph is not necessarily the
photograph of the bullet that was shown to me
during this testimony. What was shown to me
during this testimony was the bullet that I
removed. And I looked at that bullet, and I
said, yes, this is the bullet I removed.
I don't know anything about this
photograph. But I do know that during this
testimony the bullet that was shown to me was
the bullet I removed.
Q. Dr. Francisco, could you describe the
bullet that you removed from Dr. King's
body.
A. It was a bullet with a jacket and
with lead.
Q. Was it intact?
A. It was damaged. A jacketed bullet,
in which the jacket has been peeled back, is
a damaged bullet in which the lead that's on
the inside is loose and can come out very
easily, very readily --
Q. Dr. Francisco --
A. -- as it did in this case.
Q. Was the bullet that you removed from
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 767
Dr. King's body one piece, an intact bullet?
A. What I removed from Dr. King was a
bullet that was intact at the time I removed
it. However, there were two pieces of lead.
One that was very daintily attached to the
other because of its damaging and, therefore,
any kind of handling, moving or examination,
these two pieces of lead could come detached
from one another. The lead that was still
inside the jacket can come loose at any time
and, therefore, representing three pieces at
some later time because it's been altered in
the examination process, just the handling
process.
Q. How could you -- how did you identify
the fragments that were shown to you though
as the bullet that you removed?
A. Because it had the same topography,
configuration, color, shape, of a photograph
I made of that bullet at the time I removed
it from the autopsy. It also had my autopsy
number scratched on the base of the jacket,
which is the most vital part of bullet, the
numbers 252.
Q. So you have no question then that the
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 768
bullet you were shown at the time of the
guilty plea hearing was the bullet that you
took from Dr. King's body even though it was
in different pieces?
A. No question whatsoever.
MR. PEPPER: Thank you, Your
Honor. Nothing further.
CROSS-EXAMINATION
BY MR. GARRISON:
Q. Dr. Francisco, we have talked about
the wound. Was it a -- what you would
classify as a large wound -- the entry wound,
was it a large wound?
A. It had been enlarged by surgery. It
was not particularly large in terms of what
wounds -- what bullet wounds can cause. But
it had been enlarged by surgery. It
certainly was a lethal one.
Q. Did you do anything to probe the
wound? Insert anything to trace the path of
it?
A. No. You don't -- you don't probe
wounds for determining the path. That has a
tendency to alter the wound. And probes are
not something you do if you're going to do an
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 769
autopsy.
Q. Which side of the jaw was it that --
it's your understanding it would have been
his right side?
A. To the right side.
Q. Just under the jaw bone?
A. Well, it was just adjacent to the
angle of the mouth. It was present, as I'm
pointing right here, just to the angle of the
right side of the mouth.
Q. Dr. Francisco, I know you've
performed thousands of autopsies. And are
you familiar with calibers of weapons and a
bullet that comes from a certain caliber?
A. In a general sense. The caliber
refers to the cross-sectional diameter of the
bullet. A .7 millimeter bullet is 7
millimeters in cross-sectional diameter. A
.22 caliber bullet is 22 one-hundredths of an
inch in cross-sectional diameter. I'm
familiar in that sense, yes.
Q. Would this bullet have been a bullet
that would have been fired from or shot from
a weapon -- a rifle or a 30 aught 6?
A. Could have been.
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 770
Q. Was it conformed to that size?
A. Approximately that size, yes.
Q. And was this bullet an expanding type
bullet where it -- or could you determine?
You said it was damaged.
A. Well, this is a partial jacketed
bullet. And the whole purpose of a partial
jacket is that it expands as it strikes a
hard object and, therefore, mushrooms and
produces a larger surface after it strikes
than before it strikes.
Q. Now, Dr. Francisco, you were asked by
the district attorney to visit the scene of
where this supposedly occurred. Am I
correct, sir?
A. That's correct.
Q. And did you -- did you visit the
scene in the so-called rooming house where
you were upstairs in a bathroom and also down
in the lower area where there was -- up over
Mulberry Street but yet it was raised where
there were some bushes, I think, that had
been cut? Did you visit both of those
scenes?
A. I did.
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 771
Q. And did you also visit the balcony
where Dr. King was supposed to be standing?
A. I did.
Q. And were you told as to what position
he was supposed to be in at the time of the
wound -- the shot?
A. Well, there was a photograph. There
was a photograph made of his position just
before the shot was fired. So from the
photograph I had seen what position it was.
Q. All right, sir. And did you
determine or form any opinion as to what type
of path this projectile took from the weapon
it was fired from?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. And what type of path did it
seem -- appear to you that it took from the
time it was fired from the weapon?
A. It appeared to be in a downward
path.
Q. All right. Based upon your visiting
the scene and the wooded area and the
bathroom window and your observation of the
wound and examining of the body, which
location did you testify that it appeared to
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 772
you that the shot came from?
A. Well, the shot could not have come
from the base of the building. You couldn't
see Dr. King from the base of the building
because the land was up. You would have to
be up closer to the ridge itself to be able
to see Dr. King in that location. From the
bathroom window you could see the body, and
it was quite consistent with having been
fired from that bathroom window.
Q. When you visited the scene,
Dr. Francisco, there were some trees -- I
think what have been referred to as trees or
bushes. Had they been cut at that time?
A. Yes, they had.
MR. GARRISON: That's all I
have. Thank you.
THE COURT: Anything further,
Mr. Pepper?
MR. PEPPER: I have nothing
further, Judge.
THE COURT: All right. Doctor,
you may stand down. Thank you, sir.
(Witness excused.)
MR. PEPPER: We move to admit
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 773
the guilty plea proceeding testimony of
Dr. Francisco.
THE COURT: All right. Exhibit
7.
(Whereupon said document was
marked as Trial Exhibit Number 7.)
THE COURT: All right. Call
your next witness.
MR. PEPPER: Plaintiffs call
Mr. John Billings.
JOHN E. BILLINGS, Jr.,
Having been first duly sworn, was examined
and testified as follows:
DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. PEPPER:
Q. Morning, Mr. Billings.
A. Morning, Mr. Pepper.
Q. Thank you for joining us this
morning. Would you please state your name --
full name and address for the record,
please.
A. John Edward Billings, Jr., 787 West
Drive, Memphis, Tennessee.
Q. And would you tell us, what is your
occupation?
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 774
A. Private investigator.
Q. And how long have you been a private
investigator?
A. 30 years this year.
Q. And are you licensed by the State of
Tennessee?
A. Yes, sir, I am.
Q. Did there come a time, Mr. Billings,
when you became involved in the investigation
of the assassination of Martin Luther King?
A. Yes, sir. My involvement began on
April 4th, 1968.
Q. And how did your involvement begin on
April 4th, 1968?
A. Well, sir, I was a junior at Memphis
State University and I was working six
afternoons and evenings a week at St.
Joseph's Hospital. I was a surgical
assistant. And we -- I had just come on at
4 o'clock that afternoon. And it was kind of
a slow day. We had a few operations going in
surgery.
And we were up on the sixth floor.
And we were standing outside the nurses'
lounge, which is across from recovery and the
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 775
cast room, which is a non-sterile room. And
I remember standing out in the hallway when
Mrs. Matthews, who is the head scrub nurse,
came running out the door and said, get the
cast room ready, Martin Luther King has been
shot -- been shot in the leg.
So we were sort of stunned. And we
went over to start getting the cast room
ready, which was a non-sterile room. We were
kind of excited because, you know, we were
getting ready to meet Dr. King. And being --
the cast room would be a flesh wound, so we
didn't think it was a severe wound. But
within a minute or two Ms. Matthews came back
out and yelled at us to get Room 1 ready.
And that's all she had to say because Room 1
was the neuro room, so we knew it was a head
shot.
Then she asked me to go around
through surgery around by the back elevators
and get a gurney and come back up and meet
her. So I went around -- walked through
surgery and went around to get the gurney.
And before I could get the gurney, I noticed
two male figures beating on the door. There
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 776
were these frosted doors back there, and they
had a recessed button that would open them
up, and they were having a hard time finding
it.
So I reached over and opened the
door. And two men -- two male whites
carrying machine guns -- what appeared to be
machine guns at the time -- came running
through the doors and down the hall. And
this sort of startled a number of people,
including some doctors who were doing surgery
noticed this. So I got the gurney, and I
started back up the hall. And Mrs. Matthews
rounded the corner and met me. And she told
us specifically to go down the back elevator
which went directly into the waiting room
from the top floor down, and to bring
Dr. King back up when it was ready for
surgery.
And she was explicit about not
letting anyone -- mainly the press or anybody
else on the elevator that was not concerned
with Dr. King's health couldn't come back.
So we took the gurney and went down -- when
the doors opened to the emergency room -- the
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 777
emergency room was filling up with people
which appeared to be Dr. King's entourage or
his group of people. And I think
Dr. Abernathy had just gotten there.
And there was a -- kind of a
quietness about it. There was no panic.
There was no wailing or anything. It was
just sort of like shock. Everybody -- it was
like a bomb had gone off.
So I went around into Emergency Room
1 through some other doors, and that was the
room they were working on Dr. King. They had
just brought him in at that time. And we
went into the room. We were wearing surgical
greens, so we went into the room and stood
against the wall and watched them work on
Dr. King. I believe Dr. Rufus Brown was the
resident in the emergency room that night,
and he was sort of leading the team.
And Dr. Julia who was our neuro --
resident surgeon was also -- had just
arrived, and they were working, it seems
like, in teams. There were other doctors who
were coming in. All the residents were busy
working, and we just waited against the wall
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 778
and didn't say anything.
This went on for a while. They were
feverishly working -- it seemed like for 30,
45 minutes or so.
Q. Let me interrupt you there. At that
point in time when they were feverishly
working on Dr. King, was it evident to you
that he was alive -- he was still alive?
A. Well, it appeared that they were
because they were doing, it appeared to me,
all the things -- of course, Dr. King was
sort of against the wall at the back of the
room. And I could see the backs of the
doctors feverishly working. They were doing
all the things that I knew of to bring him
around and resuscitate him. There was
constant motion.
You know, they were -- it was just
constant motion in front of us. So, you
know, we fully expected to take him to
surgery.
Q. So you just stood against the wall
and watched these procedures being carried
out?
A. Yes, sir.
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 779
Q. Who else was attending besides
Dr. Rufus Brown and Dr. Julia at that time;
do you recall?
A. I can't necessarily recall the names
anymore. There was several doctors. I think
one in particular that -- I can't think of
his name -- was team leader. At the time it
wasn't any designated people. It was like
everyone was working together as groups, and
there wasn't anybody really -- they were all
talking back and forth and doing things, and
everybody was very involved in their work.
Q. Now, you just mentioned in passing
two men, male whites, with machine guns who
came running into the room --
A. Yes, sir.
Q. -- whom you saw. Did you recognize
who they were?
A. No, sir. I never seen them before.
Q. Did they identify themselves?
A. No, sir, they didn't.
Q. Did you ever see them again?
A. I don't recall because that night
was -- there were many men like that running
around sur -- I mean, in the emergency room
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 780
that night. When we got down there, they
were forming a ring around the walls which
was maybe -- they were a foot or two apart.
And there were officers, some wearing
T-shirts, some wearing suits, some wearing
uniforms, a variety of weapons. And they
formed a ring completely around the inside of
the back of the emergency room around the
wall.
I mean, all the way through the
other rooms. So it was totally secure at
that point. And we had heard also that they
were setting up flood lights at the hospital
because the hospital was receiving bomb
threats at that time.
Q. Were any of the people in the room
around the walls in the periphery in uniform?
A. Some were in uniform, yes, sir.
Q. What kind of uniforms?
A. City police, it seemed like Shelby
County. Some were just wearing, you know,
suits with their jackets off. Shoulder -- I
mean, guns, pistols. There was -- like I
said, there was a variety of weapons.
Q. What time did it become evident to
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 781
you as an observer that Dr. King was dead?
A. Well, the activity continued. And
then I believe it was Dr. Julia or one of the
doctors -- several turned and walked up to
me. They -- I knew them -- quite familiar.
And they said, go get someone in charge. We
need to speak to someone in charge.
So I turned and went out of the room
and went out into the emergency room area
where I had noticed one or two gentlemen
wearing suits seemed to be more or less
telling everyone what to do. So I approached
them and told them that the doctor wanted to
speak to them.
So we walked back around the corner
into the emergency room. Right in the
doorway of Room 1 where the doors open, they
stood in the doorway, and the doctors
informed them of something to the effect of
Dr. King is -- Dr. King is terminated. We
have done everything that we can. We feel
there's nothing left that we can do.
And at that time the gentlemen in
suits told the doctors that they would like
for them not to make any statements to the
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 782
press or do anything for about an hour
because they had to call out the National
Guard. And if they could go out of the area
very quietly or up the back steps or any way
they could get out, they would appreciate it.
Q. Who were the gentlemen in suits?
A. I do not know. I don't know what
their names were. I only had watched through
observation that they were -- they were
telling other people what to do, so I figured
they were in charge.
Q. Were they local people?
A. I do not know. I had never seen them
before or since.
Q. You've never seen them before or
since?
A. No, sir.
Q. They seemed to take charge of events
at that point?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Mr. Billings, moving on, many years
later --
A. Yes, sir.
Q. -- was there a time when you became
an investigator -- part of the investigative
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 783
team for James Earl Ray and his post-
conviction relief application?
A. Yes, sir, there was. I had -- I had
been working in Memphis a while. And I had a
particular client that was -- a high-profile
client needed some help on. And I requested
through an attorney, Sheldon Green, if he
knew an investigator that I could use that's
been around. So he mentioned Kenny Herman
who had been an investigator at that point, I
believe, 25 or 28 years.
So I met Kenny Herman, and we worked
on several cases over a period of a couple of
years. And during that period of time, he
talked about working for you, Dr. Pepper.
And we used to laugh about the attorney who
had a portable fax machine, because that was
a new thing back then, and he would ride the
train and take care of business on the fax.
And he talked about doing different
jobs. I believe Kenny became involved when
the BBC came over in the late 80's and did
several documentaries on this. And Kenny did
most of the research and looked up all these
witnesses and, literally, between you and he
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 784
pulled the case together. Which the BBC
aired several different shows that was put
together by you all.
Q. In the course of your work -- and
would you say your role grew with time as
that investigation continued?
A. Yes, sir, it did. We -- we sort of
discussed it a lot. Not that much because I
was under the impression that James Earl Ray
was the gunman, and what was the big
question. You know, what's the big deal? He
plead guilty. You know, I didn't understand
all the flurry of activity. And we would
talk about -- Kenny never pressed it
until -- at one point we were talking -- we
were doing surveillance one day. And he
showed me a contract, and it was -- he said
that I believe you and he had felt like it
would be very difficult for James Earl Ray to
ever get another real day in court.
And the idea was to possibly do a
mock trial which had been done previous to
this. And you felt that maybe through a mock
trial you could get some of this stuff out
and to the public.
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 785
Q. So then you became involved in the
investigation --
A. Yes, sir.
Q. -- prior to the television mock
trial?
A. Yes, sir. We felt like that we as
investigators probably did the first
investigation that was ever fully done on
this case. And the people we talked to, we
found that that was probably true. That no
one as far as James Earl Ray, in the early
stages of his defense before he plead guilty,
had really adequately done an investigation
and touched all bases. And, of course, new
information had been released from the
government through their files that gave us
more insight into the case.
Q. Moving ahead from the -- the
television mock trial, did you become
involved at one point in the investigation
that focused on the existence of a man called
Raul?
A. Yes, sir, we did. Up until --
throughout our investigation leading up to
the mock trial, we discussed Raul. And we
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 786
had very little -- any -- no leads other than
James' statements to the effect that, of
course, Raul was the man he met at the
Neptune Bar in Canada by the docks -- the
maritime docks, and his descriptions of him
and his various associations with him,
traveling to Mexico, et cetera.
We all felt like ever finding
Raul -- and we, of course, thought maybe
that was just a code name, you know, or a
nickname or something. We weren't sure. So
we didn't hold forth a lot of hope. We
investigated as best we could, but we had
absolutely no leads.
Q. What did you understand -- according
to Mr. Ray, what did you understand was the
role that the alleged Raul played?
A. Well, according to James, the role
that he played was -- James, of course, was
on the run, looking for a way to get out of
the country and had made it into Canada. And
James typically, looking at his record, would
hang out in sort of seedy type bars and stuff
to try to make contacts with people who could
help him do things.
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 787
And that was sort of his M.O. And
he said that he was in the bar one time and
he met a fellow named Raul. And they
started talking. And Raul -- he said -- he
described him as a Latin looking fellow. He
said that Raul offered to help him. He
said, I've got certain ways you can make some
money if you would just do certain jobs for
me, some of which included driving cars into
Canada and out of Canada.
I believe at this time James got
different sets of ID's. And James always
told me that he was just looking for a way to
get out of the country. He was trying to get
away because he was a fugitive.
Q. Do you recall the bar in which he
said he met Raul?
A. I believe it was the Neptune Bar.
Q. Where was it?
A. I want to say -- I can't recall right
now.
Q. All right.
A. But I do remember the Neptune Bar.
Q. Okay. So you're involved now with
the investigation of the existence of this
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 788
Raul, focusing on him.
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did there come a time after the mock
trial when information came to you -- a
person came to you who had information about
such a person?
A. Yes, there was. Some months after
the trial, we sort of went -- when we won the
mock trial, we were all under the impression
that something was going to come of it. We
had raised a lot of issues. There had been a
lot of witnesses coming forth, and a lot of
witnesses that were not included in the
movie. The movie actually -- the trial
lasted, actually, around 79 hours. I spent
ten days with James in the prison passing
notes and stuff because he was not totally
familiar with that investigation. All of
this had happened very rapidly.
So James and I really -- you know, I
actually saw the entire 79 hours. They, of
course, tried to condense this into three
hours. And that's like trying to condense
this into three hours. I think it would be
very difficult.
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 789
But some time after that a lady
named Glenda Grabow and Roy Grabow came from
Mississippi and contacted us and said that
they had some information for us. And Kenny
and I met with Glenda and Roy Grabow and
listened to what Glenda had to say.
Upon hearing her first statements
that we got into with her, I found it -- I
didn't necessarily believe her. I thought
this was too -- too incredible. And it's
also -- it was -- I mean, the things that she
told us -- you know, at that point I thought
possibly that the government or somebody had
put her in to try to further discredit us.
Because that was an ongoing thing during all
this period of time.
And -- but the more that we talked
with Glenda and the more information that we
got as investigators, we, of course, felt
like we were going to check it out. And me,
I was sort of in the course of mood to
disprove her. Because I said, this is --
this is -- I mean, either we're getting
one -- a great break, or this is just a
fictitious story.
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 790
Of course, once we began to check
out her story, it began to fall into place.
And that was -- that was the amazing part of
it.
Q. What did you understand? What did
you come to believe happened with respect to
the existence of Raul? What new information
came to you from this source?
A. Well, she discussed her -- her story
was that she was a young girl whose family
had moved to Texas when she was probably 12,
13 years old -- had moved to Houston. And
while she was there, her family evidently was
in an abusive style with her. I believe that
was pretty much what it was. And she was --
she was hanging around the areas where she
lived.
And in this area she met a fellow
named Jack. And her -- she and Jack became
somewhat friends, I believe later intimate
friends maybe. And with this she had met
Raul -- a fellow named Raul. And when she
told us about Raul, she said, I don't know
his last name because his -- he always went
by the name Dago. She didn't know what
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 791
nationality he was other than he was
foreign.
And she had had -- she had come to
know this man and his uncle called Amaro.
And she got to know them, and I believe she
stated that she had made some pornographic
movies.
Q. Did this individual whom she
described as Raul, in many ways describing
him and talking about this against her own
interests, did -- at some point did this
individual -- did it become evident to her
that he had played some role in the
assassination of Martin Luther King?
A. Yes. She stated that -- she made it
clear to us that -- she said that she thought
he was involved in other things. But she --
this -- we asked her what -- why would she
think he was involved with this. And she
stated that it had been rumored among the
circle of people she was working with and
running with at that time that they were
involved in the King assassination.
And then there was an incident one
time that really seemed to stand out in her
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 792
mind and sort of hurt her, and it was very
painful for her to talk about. She stated
she was working one day. And she worked with
these people in various illegal activities
or, shall we say, shady activities. And they
sort of used her, I think, to do things for
them, run errands and stuff.
But she stated that they were
sitting at a table one day working on some
things. And Raul came in, and she was
looking through a little view finder -- a
little plastic thing, which she still had one
we looked through, and it was Martin Luther
King, Robert Kennedy and John Kennedy, and
there was a little picture of them.
And Raul, she said, came into the
room and said, what are you looking at? And
he evidently looked at it and went off about
it and told her that he had already killed
the -- I believe she referred to it as -- the
sonofabitch once, do I have to kill him
again? Or something to that effect. And
then drug her into a room and raped her.
Which was odd because they had had intimate
relations before, but it was very upsetting
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 793
to her and him.
Q. It was an act of violence against
her.
A. Yes.
Q. And a very traumatic experience for
her as you perceived it?
A. Yes. And Glenda was sort of damaged
goods. You know, she had been abused a good
bit of her life. And she has -- she doesn't
have the complexities to -- to fabricate an
elaborate complex story which is what she was
telling without losing a train of thought
which made it very credible to us.
Q. Has she from that day to this told
basically the same story?
A. Yes, she has.
Q. In terms of the details.
A. Yes. She's very good on the details
which, as an investigator, tells me it's --
it's hard to maintain a lie. The more
complex the lie, the harder it is to remember
the details, but --
Q. How long has -- has this story been
told by this person?
A. From the day we met her.
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 794
Q. When was that in terms of years?
A. Probably nineteen ninety -- I want to
say maybe the fall of '93, '94, somewhere
around in there. Right after the movie.
Q. So for some six years the details
have been consistent?
A. Yes, they had. And we have talked to
her on many occasions. I've deliberately
brought things up to test her memory to see
if she can recall what I was talking about.
And she does. And to me that gives her the
credibility.
Q. Did there come a time when you
actually went to Houston along with others --
or even independent of others and checked out
some of the aspects of her story for
yourself?
A. Yes. We discussed among us at this
point -- it was Kenny Herman and I and then
Jack Saltman who was the director of HBO --
Tim's movie, who after making the movie
became very involved in this.
Q. And by "the movie" you mean what?
A. The trial of James Earl Ray.
Q. The trial, okay.
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 795
A. And Mr. Saltman had been -- he sort
of -- when I first met him, he was
skeptical. It was just a job to him. And
once he had gone through and seen the 79
hours and the witnesses and heard all of
this, he was totally convinced that something
was wrong. And I believe Mr. Saltman felt
like he wanted to help get to the bottom of
this. So we discussed how can we find this
information out in Houston.
And myself -- I knew some people in
Miami and New York that I had worked for
through some of the years. And it -- being
an investigator, you meet a lot of different
people. And, anyhow, I asked him a favor, if
they could open some doors down in Houston.
And they made some phones calls.
These are some very, shall we say,
powerful people. And they made some phone
calls to a big bond company in Houston. And
the people at the bond company met with us
and opened the doors to people like retired
federal judges, people who owned theaters,
people who knew Glenda. Some of which said,
you know, yes, I -- I mean, all of them
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 796
admitted to knowing Glenda in somewhat of an
intimate way.
One of them even produced pictures
of her and gleefully said, these are
photographs I have of her. I keep them under
my bed, but I'm not going to show you the
good ones. Which stunned us. Everything she
said was becoming real.
Q. So you were able, in terms of your
own independent effort -- in the stint of
that, you were able to confirm a lot of the
details of her story.
A. Yes. And the more we checked, the
more it confirmed details. Which, you know,
it surprised me. Because I was the skeptic
of the group. I felt like this was just a
government plant. This just would really
disrupt the train. We did not want to get
into Texas. We did not want to get into any
of that. We were having trouble enough with
just the King assassination -- the various
resistance that we met through the press,
through the government, through --
Q. Moving on, did there come a time when
you were able to obtain harder information
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 797
with respect to the existence of this person?
A. Well, there was. We -- of course,
we -- we located Amaro because they had --
they had worked on the docks. He, I believe,
had a maritime card or something. And Jack
managed to pull his Director of BBC influence
out, and they gave him the information when
normally they wouldn't. He told them they
were making a movie and they needed this
information. So we obtained that. So we
knew there was an Amaro and we had the last
name and stuff, but we still didn't have
Raul.
Q. Did there come a critical break-
through at one point in time?
A. Yes.
Q. Right here actually in Memphis?
A. Yes, there was. Through our
investigation -- Kenny had been around a long
time and knew the police quite well and was
very good friends with, at that time, Sheriff
Jack Owens, I believe. So we had a lot of
influence. And Kenny asked a fellow to help
him. It was a lieutenant -- well, actually
at the time Sergeant Tim Cook came and
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 798
produced a piece of paper that gave us a -- a
history of the Raul we were looking for that
led us to Portugal -- Lisben.
Q. Did this Memphis Police Department
officer not become a member of the Attorney
General's investigative task force on this
case?
A. Yes, he did. He sort of ran with us
for a couple of years -- or Kenny more than
myself. I met him a few times. And he was
trying to give information to Kenny. He gave
us that big plum and seemed very interested.
He was very, very interested in this case and
spent a lot of time with Kenny.
And as we broke into Raul, he was
sort of with us. And he began to meet with
us a good bit. And then when the Attorney
General's office ordered an investigation, he
was picked. He called us up and he was
ecstatic. And he said, you're not going to
believe what happened. They picked me. And,
of course, you know, we were saying, well,
that's great. We got somebody that we felt
was going to do an investigation -- you know,
a thorough investigation.
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 799
And during this period of time we
would meet with him and he would tell us
various stories about the AG's -- Attorney
General's office and the problems they were
having. And he would always kind of degrade
them. And he would say things that I felt
that we wanted to hear. And I even mentioned
to Tim a number of times that I didn't
care -- there were several times I felt he
was even wearing a wire.
I told him -- I said, I don't care
if you wear a wire, I don't care if you're
reporting, I don't care what side you're on
because we're just after the truth.
Q. Did you come to believe that this
officer who had provided you with some useful
information at first had an ulterior motive?
A. I sort of thought that. Kenny and he
were friendlier. And Kenny, I think, spent
more time with him. But, once again, he was
a police officer. He had a job to do. And I
couldn't understand his enthusiasm for us
because generally people that got into this
or associated with us or helped us paid a
high price. And I felt like, you know, he
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 800
was jeopardizing his career.
Q. What then would have been the purpose
of giving you this information?
A. I felt like giving us this
information is like anything. If you want to
gain somebody's trust, you've got to give
them something. And he gave us something and
gained our trust through the fact that we
thought we could get more information from
him. And he had given us, you know, a
good piece.
Q. What was the nature of the
information that you were given early on?
A. Well, the information that we were
given was that Raul had worked in Lisben,
Portugal, up until 1961 at the arms factory
in Portugal making weapons. On this he was
supposed to be just a worker, but Tim noted
on the piece of paper that he had heard that
he was far more involved than just weapons
making. Actually, he was in the sale of
weapons.
And this, of course, went in with
what Glenda was saying and Roy, that they
were dealing weapons and would go out on the
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 801
dock and pick up various fire arms, stuff
like that. So there were little -- you know,
there's a lot of little ties that seemed to,
you know, to add to her story. Now, I don't
think Tim knew all of this, so we were
getting it from two sources, so --
Q. Mr. Billings, I'm going to show you a
report and ask you if you recognize it.
A. This is the report that Tim Cook gave
us. It says: "Word of mouth is he really
wasn't an assistant mechanic, but rather a
clerk" --
Q. Let me --
A. I'm sorry.
Q. Let me back up one minute.
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Let me ask you to read that report
but not to use the last name of the -- of the
person identified as Raul in that report.
A. Okay. It says: United States of
America, Number 8920111, Certificate of
Naturalization. DOB, date of birth,
7-16-34. Nationalized on 6-15 of '67 in the
name of Raul. Okay. It's signed by a
clerk in the Supreme Court of the State of
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 802
New York.
Serial number from Portugal Passport
is 760529 issued on 12-5-61, expired 4-4-62.
Passport Number 18425/61 issued in Lisben,
Portugal, on 11-16 of '61, expires 11-15 of
'63. Worked from 10 of '57 through 12 of
'61 at National Factory of Arms in Lisben,
Portugal, as a mechanic assistant. Reason
for leaving, left for America. Correct name
of business is Fabrica Nacional Municoes
Armao -- and it goes on in Portugal.
Word of mouth is he really wasn't an
assistant mechanic but really a clerk who
worked in the office who did all the
paperwork on shipping arms. When arms were
shipped out, they were shipped out
unassembled. New York State Liquor Authority
wholesale beer license for that was effective
7-1 of '92, expires 6-30 of '93. Certificate
Number D240634.
MR. PEPPER: Thank you,
Mr. Billings. Move to admit, Your Honor.
THE COURT: That will be
marked.
(Whereupon said document was
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 803
marked as Trial Exhibit Number 8.)
Q. (BY MR. PEPPER) Did there then come a
time, Mr. Billings, when you were provided
with a photograph of this individual which
you then -- which was then incorporated into
a spread?
A. Yes, sir. At this time also with
this piece of paper, Tim Cook gave us his
passport photograph from 1961 when he entered
America. So we did have a picture of him.
And that was the first photograph that we
had.
Q. Let me show you this spread of
photographs, please. Mr. Billings, can you
see those photographs quite clearly?
A. Yes, sir. That's a photo spread put
together by Kenny Herman and myself.
Q. Let me ask you if -- do you see the
photograph that you referred to as -- the
person referred to as Raul?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Which one is it?
A. It's the one on the right middle to
my right. You may want to point that out.
Q. You're saying this --
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 804
A. Yes, sir.
Q. -- this photograph here?
A. Yes, sir, that's the passport photo.
Q. And this was a photograph that you
received independently and incorporated it
into this spread?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did there come a time when you showed
that photograph to James Earl Ray in his
prison cell?
A. Yes, sir, it was. We -- when we had
a lot more information, we waited to discuss
this with James. I was visiting him quite a
bit at that time. And we discussed when and
how to show it to him. And we decided to go
ahead and see if he could pick it out. So we
went to River Bend Prison and met with James
and sat down at the table. And where I told
James -- I told him that we had a picture of
Raul. And he seemed somewhat surprised.
And I asked him if he would choose
to attempt to pick out Raul in a photo
spread. And he said that he would. So we
put this before him, and James put on his
glasses and very -- for a minute or two
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 805
studied these pictures very carefully. And
as he studied them, he looked down at them
and just kind of dropped his finger down and
said, that's Raul. And we said, are you
positive? He said, yes, I am.
And then he said something that
really surprised us. He said, I've seen this
picture before. And I asked James, I said,
what do you mean you've seen this picture
before? You know, I was thinking, how could
he have seen this picture before? And he
said during, I believe it was, the House
Assassinations Committee that someone had
mailed him, with a no-return address, a
picture. And it was this picture, and it had
a name on the back of it. And he couldn't
remember the name. And I asked him -- we
asked him, well, did anyone ever identify
this? He said, no, no one could identify
it.
I said, did anyone else ever see
it? And he said, well, my attorney. He said
he believed April Ferguson, who was also
working on his behalf, had seen it. And that
it was somewhat passed around among people at
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 806
House Assassinations, but no one could
identify this picture.
Q. Mr. Billings, let me -- your
testimony here today is that when you showed
this photograph to James Earl Ray, he said he
had seen it before?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Let me pass to you an affidavit
signed by James Earl Ray and filed in another
court on October 25, 1995. I ask you to
please read Paragraphs 8 and 9 of that
affidavit.
A. Okay. "In 1978, however, I did see a
photograph. And at that time I identified
the person in that photograph as being
Raul. In the intervening years I had
reviewed 200 to 300 photographs but was only
able to identify this particular one. I am
certain that the person in that particular
photograph identified was Raul. Attached
hereto as Exhibit 1, a copy of the newspaper
article which reported my identification at
that time.
"In the spring of 1995 I was shown
that same photograph of the man I know to be
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 807
Raul by Private Investigator Kenneth
Herman. At the time I confirmed that this
was the same photograph I had seen and
identified as depicting Raul. Mr. Herman
told me he believed he had located this man."
Q. That's fine. Thank you. Now, what
is attached to that affidavit?
A. It's James Earl Ray's signature
notarized.
Q. Is there a newspaper clipping
attached to that?
A. Yes, sir, there is.
Q. And --
A. It says something 30th, 1978. "Man
in photo is Raul. Ray."
Q. So that newspaper article is a report
on November 30, 1978, where James Earl Ray --
at which time James Earl Ray had been
reported as recognizing a photograph of a man
he called Raul?
A. Mm-hum.
Q. And to you he identified that
photograph as being the same as that one
there?
A. Yes, sir. Because he immediately
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 808
commented after picking him out that he had
seen this photograph before. And that was --
that was a real shock to us. I had not read
this newspaper article at that time.
MR. PEPPER: Your Honor, move to
admit that affidavit and its exhibit.
THE COURT: Make that a
collective exhibit.
THE SHERIFF: Yes, sir.
(Whereupon said documents were
marked as Collective Trial Exhibit Number 9.)
THE COURT: Okay.
Q. (BY MR. PEPPER) Has there been any
further activity on your part or the part of
your associates in the conduct of this
investigation of identifying Raul?
A. Yes, sir. Once we knew where he
lived, we went up and made surreptitious
photos of him on a cloudy rainy New York
Sunday when he was walking back from church.
He would walk down to the church in kind of
the square where he lived in and would walk
back up to his home.
And we had had someone stop him to
talk about some campaign literature in an
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 809
attempt to get some fingerprints from him,
which I believe we got six or seven prints
off of it. And we did that. And then we
went back another time -- we decided that
Glenda and Roy were unsure. They were
looking at the immigration photo which does
look a little bit different, which you would
expect.
So they were having a hard time with
that. And then they looked at the new photos
we had of the older Raul. And they
hadn't -- I believe it had been something
like 17 or 18 years or so since she had seen
him.
Q. Let me ask you: During this time
when you talked to Mr. and Mrs. Grabow,
did -- where did you meet them? Where were
they when these conversations took place?
A. Where were we meeting like here in
Memphis? We would meet them at Kenny's house
usually.
Q. So they were back here in Memphis.
A. Yes. They didn't want us to come to
their house because they were still at this
point trying to keep this low key. She
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 810
was -- they seemed very nervous about all of
this.
Q. Have you yourself ever been able to
speak personally with the man you've come to
identify as Raul?
A. Yes, I spoke to him a number of
times. We -- we decided -- Kenny and I
talked about it, and we decided that we
needed to try to get in to meet him and talk
to him. And, of course, we saw where he had
a liquor license. So we simply called him up
and started a conversation that we were
interested in opening up some pizza
businesses in New Jersey.
Q. Opening up some business operations?
A. Yes, some business operations.
Q. What I want to get to -- did you
notice how he spoke on the telephone?
A. Yes. He had an accent, but he spoke
very clearly. I mean, you could understand
him. He was very enthusiastic about us
coming to buy some wine from him. And we
discussed -- we called him three or four
times in the discussions.
Q. Did you know where he was ostensibly
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 811
employed during this whole period of time?
A. No, we did not know that.
Q. You did not know that at that time?
A. No. We were hoping to get into that
with him upon meeting him. And we went to
New York, and we took Glenda and Roy with
us. And we went to New York in an attempt to
get -- let Glenda and Roy visually see this
fellow.
So when we got there, I wanted to
try to set this up with -- since we had a
fairly good rapport going with Raul, I
wanted to set this up in a meeting. But
Kenny wanted to do what we kind of call a
cold call. And that means you just sort of
knock on the door. I guess he didn't want to
give him a lot of time to think about it. We
just wanted to come in there. So when we got
there, I phoned Raul from maybe ten minutes
from his house, an area he was familiar
with.
And we had set up cameras, video.
We had Glenda and Roy's position in place.
And I asked him to come pick me up. And he
seemed very shocked, very surprised and
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 812
almost scared. It really threw me. I didn't
expect that kind of reaction because we had a
pretty good rapport. And he kept saying:
What are you doing? What are you doing
here? And I said, we discussed coming up.
And since we're here and looking at
locations, I said -- Kenny was posing as my
uncle. I said, my uncle was overdoing it.
And, you know, I rode over here today from
the area, and I thought I'd just go ahead and
talk to you and see about, you know,
purchasing -- setting up some purchases.
Q. He was put on his guard though at
that point.
A. Yes. And he kept saying, all I have
is Portuguese wine. And I said, that's fine
with us. And I said, well, can you come get
me? No, no. And he kept saying, I have to
go to the port. Well, that kind of threw
me. I thought he meant the airport. And he
kept saying, no, I've got to go to the port,
I got to go to the port. And I said, well,
do you want me to come up there? And he
said, no, I'm busy. I've got to go to the
port.
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 813
And so we immediately went to his
house and set up surveillance. And this was
approximately -- maybe 11 in the morning.
And we stayed there until probably 1 or so at
night. And there was no movement there
whatsoever. I mean, it was like the whole
house shut down. He never went to the port.
Nobody ever left the house, nobody ever
came. Which we thought was rather odd. I
did anyway from the various cases I've
worked.
Q. When this became public, and it did
become public at one point in time, was there
a sudden movement or exit from his house?
A. Well, there was another time that I
went up with another fellow. And we were
going to try to get some pictures -- some
clearer pictures than the ones we had gotten
previously. And it was on Sunday morning.
And we got there early Sunday morning,
started doing some surveillance. And
during -- and just when we set up, a large
U-Haul type -- maybe Ryder rental truck
pulled up in the front of the house.
And three or four white males got
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 814
out, rather husky, and they looked around
like they were going to rob a bank. We
started laughing because they were looking up
and down the street and appeared to be
nervous. So we wondered, what's going on?
And they went into the house. And where they
stayed, they got some boxes out. We didn't
see anybody for a couple of hours, and then
they started bringing stuff out and loading
it into the truck.
So we watched them load the truck
over a period of two or three hours. And we
were debating about whether or not to attempt
to follow the truck. We knew if we did that,
you know, they might make us. And the fellow
I was with was not a detective and wasn't
skilled in surveillance, so we didn't want to
take a chance.
Q. So you didn't follow the truck?
A. No. And then the truck left late
that afternoon at which time, once dark came,
I went and picked up the garbage. Which is
something you do. It's not the cleanest of
jobs and stuff, but you go pick up people's
garbage. It's not against any laws. Once
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 815
you put it out, it's anybody's stuff. And we
went through the garbage trying to determine
what was going on at that time.
Q. Did you ever learn what was in the
boxes that were being removed from the house?
A. Well, we learned through the
garbage -- there was receipts there from a
lady who had lived in the house evidently for
a good period of time. They had like a
housekeeper or a friend that lived there. I
can't recall her name. And she had been
there, and she was planning on -- according
to the notes we found, she was planning on
moving within a few weeks. And for some
reason -- at that time we didn't know why, we
later found out why. For some reason she was
leaving that morning.
It looked like a really hasty thing,
that suddenly she decided to leave. Upon
leaving New York -- once we got back to
Memphis, we found out that that Sunday
morning the news in New York came out with an
article about Raul and, without giving the
last name or giving the address where he
lived, went through this whole story. So,
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 816
evidently, they had read the morning paper,
and this woman decided that she was leaving.
That's what we determined.
Q. Did there come a time in your
knowledge that Mr. -- that this individual
was sued here in the City of Memphis in
another proceeding -- another civil
proceeding?
A. Yes, sir. I believe that was a
number of years ago. I believe it was a
civil suit that you and Mr. Chastain
brought. And he -- we were -- well, of
course, it's easy to say. But we figured,
well, surely if he's innocent, he will come
down here and testify and hire an attorney
and sue everybody. So that would be the
typical situation.
But he didn't want to come and
seemed to fight tooth and nail. And he had a
very, very expensive New York law firm in
Rockefeller Center that suddenly popped up to
represent him. And then he -- they obtained
the services of a law firm down here that
also defended him. And I -- of course, I
can't say what the cost is, but we're talking
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 817
months of litigation. And I believe the
hearings lasted several weeks. If memory
serves me, it lasted a long time.
So we would have to get into a very,
very, expensive, for the average citizen, to
afford these kinds of lawyers -- attorneys.
We later learned one of the questions we
pressed on, a lady who represented the Lisben
newspaper, the main newspaper in Lisben, we
met with her. She later went and met with
Raul and his family. I don't think she ever
really spoke with him. She spoke with his
daughter and his wife.
And one of her questions was how did
you afford these legal services. And their
answer was, well, the people at the church
liked Raul and felt sorry for him, so they
defended him. But the question to me is, I
guess, did the people in Memphis also like
him too -- enough to defend him for free.
And in my 30 years of experience,
I've seldom found attorneys who would defend
someone for free. Especially in a case like
that because you're talking hundreds and
hundreds of hours.
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 818
Q. Did you attempt to do an income and
financial analysis of this gentleman's
background and status and position?
A. No, other than he owned -- owned some
property up there and had owned property for
some years. And he lived in a fairly nice
neighborhood and had a fairly nice home. So
he seemed somewhat -- you know, fairly
comfortable. But I -- I mean, I would be
scared to think what -- if I was in a similar
situation and hired a Rockefeller law firm
and a top law firm in Memphis to defend me in
such things, the cost would be a lot when it
would seem very simple to me to simply appear
and say, you know, I don't have anything to
do with this.
Q. Would your financial checks and the
information that you obtained indicate that
he could afford to pay for that -- those
kinds of --
A. No.
Q. -- legal services?
A. No. Not to the best of my belief he
couldn't. From my experience with lawyers
and trial cases and expenses, no.
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 819
MR. PEPPER: Thank you,
Mr. Billings. Nothing further.
CROSS-EXAMINATION
BY MR. GARRISON:
Q. You and I have talked about this case
for many years, haven't we?
A. Yes, sir, we have, Mr. Garrison.
Q. Let me ask you this. In all of your
conversations with Mr. Ray -- I know you had
many, many conversations with him -- did he
ever mention anything about Mr. Loyd Jowers
that you can ever remember?
A. He mentioned that he went -- I
believe he said he went into the grill that
morning and met Loyd Jowers, that he actually
talked to Loyd Jowers.
Q. Was that the only time that he ever
mentioned to you anything about Mr. Jowers?
A. He said that was his only meeting
with Mr. Jowers.
Q. Did you have any discussion with him
about what he and Mr. Jowers talked about?
A. No, other than -- I think he saw him
in there and they talked just in general. I
don't think he was fully aware of Mr. Jowers'
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 820
role in this.
Q. Ms. Grabow never heard of Mr. Jowers
when you talked to her, had she?
A. No.
MR. GARRISON: That's all, Your
Honor.
MR. PEPPER: Nothing further,
Your Honor.
THE COURT: All right, sir.
You're free to leave. Thank you very much.
THE WITNESS: Thank you, Judge.
(Witness excused.)
THE COURT: Let's take about ten
minutes.
(Brief break taken.)
THE COURT: Bring the jury out,
please, sir.
THE SHERIFF: Yes, sir.
(Jury in.)
THE COURT: All right,
Mr. Pepper, we're ready.
MR. PEPPER: Thank you, Your
Honor. Plaintiffs call Mr. Royce Wilburn.
ROYCE WILBURN,
Having been first duly sworn, was examined
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 821
and testified as follows:
DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. PEPPER:
Q. Good afternoon, Mr. Wilburn. Thank
you very much for coming down here this
afternoon and joining us. Would you state
your full name and address for the record,
please.
A. It's Royce Jeffrey Wilburn. And I --
what else did you ask?
Q. Your address.
A. What else did you ask me?
Q. Sorry.
A. Full name.
Q. Full name and your address, please.
A. I presently live in Nashville,
Tennessee.
Q. Mr. Wilburn, will you tell us what
you do for a living.
A. I'm a master electrician.
Q. How long have you been an
electrician?
A. 23 years.
Q. And do you have your own business or
are you employed?
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 822
A. I had a business here in Memphis for
12 years, and I moved to Nashville. I have a
business there now.
Q. And is it your own business?
A. Yes. I'm an electrical
subcontractor, yes.
Q. And are you the brother of Glenda
Grabow?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And did you, as a young person, live
in Houston, Texas?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Do you -- can you tell us roughly how
long you lived in Houston?
A. About 1960 -- probably '61 until
probably about 1980.
Q. And as a young person living in
Houston, what was the neighborhood -- where
was the area where you lived?
A. It was near Hobby Airport. I don't
know if anybody knows where that's at.
Q. Near Hobby Airport?
A. It's near the south side of Houston
there.
Q. All right. Did you go to school in
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 823
that area?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And how did you get to school?
A. A lot of times my sister would walk
with me to go to school. As I got a little
older, I'd take the school bus, you know.
You know, because we moved several times, and
it was a long ways, you know, to walk. So
I'd take the bus.
Q. Okay. Did you at that time and
during that time of your life become familiar
or come to know an individual known as -- now
known as Raul?
A. As -- at the time he was called
Dago.
Q. He was called Dago. And would you
describe how you came to know this person.
A. He used to follow my sister and I
around, you know, in his car. He was kind of
a dark-complected guy. I guess he talked
Spanish or some other -- you know, Houston
wasn't really integrated at that time.
That's why he kind of stood out to me, and I
was kind of scared of him. But he would pull
up and make us get in the car, things like
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 824
that.
And at one time had me lay down in
the back seat and put a hat over my head for,
you know, some reason. I don't know. Like
he didn't want me to know where he was
going.
Q. Made you lie down in the back seat
and he put a hat over your head?
A. Mm-hum.
Q. You remembered that vividly?
A. Oh, yes. Yes. I was scared to
death.
Q. And how often did you see -- did you
see this man?
A. Oh, probably ten, fifteen times. As
least as possible.
Q. Did he -- did he hang around a
particular area?
A. Yes. There was a small gas station
by a store my sister and I would walk to, and
she would mail letters to her husband. And
he would, you know, see us go by and he would
get in his car and follow us. I thought he
was an employee there. But now, come to find
out, I don't think he even worked there.
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 825
Q. He just seemed to hang around there?
A. Just seemed to hang around, yes.
Q. What's the time frame when you
actually saw this person in years -- between
which years did you see him?
A. It was probably around the Kennedy
assassination -- '63, somewhere around in
there, '64, something like that, and probably
some after that.
Q. Did there come a time when he -- when
you didn't see him anymore, when he
disappeared?
A. Well, I got older and we moved, you
know, to a different neighborhood. And, of
course, my sister's husband -- you know, he
was in some rehabilitation center or
something at the time. And, you know, he got
out and they moved off, and I just -- we
moved to another neighborhood. And I never
really seen him again, but I knew some of his
family. Or my sister knew some of his family
that would come to their house.
Q. Which member or members of his family
did you know?
A. Let's see. Mondo (phonetic) I
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 826
believe is his cousin or uncle. He visited
them quite often.
Q. You did see him quite often during
this time?
A. Probably twenty, thirty times.
Q. Did there come a time when I placed a
spread of photographs in front of you and
asked you to look at them?
A. Yes, sir, a couple years ago, I
think.
Q. And did you -- when that was done,
did you recognize one of the photographs --
one of the individuals in the spread?
A. Yes. One was this Dago/Raul
fellow.
Q. Let me show you these photographs.
Just take your time, please, Mr. Wilburn.
A. It would be on the right, the second
one down.
Q. Can we raise this so he can look at
the individuals on the bottom as well.
A. It's kind of a bad picture, but that
is him.
Q. Which one are you saying is the one
you recognize?
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 827
A. On the right, second one down.
Q. On the right, second one down?
A. Uh-huh.
Q. This one here?
A. Uh-huh.
Q. Do you have any question that's the
man you saw in Houston, Texas?
A. No doubt about it unless he's got a
twin brother.
Q. No question at all that that is the
same person?
A. Nope. No question at all.
MR. PEPPER: Now, Your Honor, at
this time plaintiffs will move the admission
of this spread of photographs.
(Whereupon said document was
marked as Trial Exhibit Number 10.)
Q. (BY MR. PEPPER) Now, at one point,
Mr. Wilburn, your sister, Mrs. Grabow, will
be testifying before this Court, probably out
of order because she's not been well
recently. But have you -- let me ask you:
Have you discussed this identification that
you have given us with her?
A. No, not at all. Huh-uh.
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 828
Q. This is your own independent
recollection and identification?
A. Right. Right. Yes, I was asked
to -- you know, by you, and there was
somebody else, I don't know who it was, that
come to my house and asked me could I
identify this Dago/Raul guy. And I said, if
you've got a picture of him, you know, I
can. They threw 15 or 20 pictures down
there. And I said, that's him. And they
said, you know, yes, it is.
Q. All right. Thank you. Now I'm going
to ask you to look at this affidavit,
Mr. Wilburn. Would you just please just look
through it.
A. Yes, this is the one I --
Q. Do you remember giving that
affidavit?
A. Yes, sir, I do.
Q. Would you just look at the last
page.
A. What, the photos or the --
Q. Not the photos but the last page of
the affidavit, the signature page. Is that
your signature?
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 829
A. Well, the very, very last page
doesn't have mine on it. It's this one here.
Q. Yes, the signature page.
A. Yes. Okay. Yes.
Q. Now, would you look at the photograph
which is an exhibit to it. And next to
the -- somewhere on that photograph do you
see your initials?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you place your initials there?
A. Yes, sir.
MR. PEPPER: Thank you.
Plaintiffs move the admission of
Mr. Wilburn's previous affidavit.
(Whereupon said document was
marked as Trial Exhibit Number 11.)
MR. PEPPER: Mr. Wilburn, thank
you very much. No further questions. It's
Mr. Garrison's turn.
THE WITNESS: Oh, okay. I was
kind of nervous. Ready to go.
CROSS-EXAMINATION
BY MR. GARRISON:
Q. I'm sorry, I did not get your full
name.
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 830
A. Royce Wilburn.
Q. Mr. Wilburn, what years are we
looking at that you met this gentleman that
you've identified? '61, 2, 3?
A. I would say -- like I say, it was
right around the time, you know, Kennedy was
assassinated.
Q. '63?
A. Yes. This guy, he hung out, you
know, right down the street from Hobby
Airport where Kennedy would get on the plane,
and then he went to Dallas and got
assassinated, but --
Q. Did he appear to have a job where he
was working anywhere?
A. I thought he worked at that gas
station.
Q. You never heard -- you heard him
engage in conversation, I guess; did you
not? This gentleman, you heard him talking
to someone; am I correct, sir?
A. Yes, he talked to my sister while we
was in the car.
Q. You heard the conversations?
A. Yes, sir.
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 831
Q. You never heard him mention anything
about the name of Jowers, I don't suppose.
A. Yes, sir, I do.
Q. Have you ever heard your sister
mention anything about the name Mr. Jowers?
A. I've heard it mentioned, but I really
don't know who the person is or anything.
You know, I think he lives in Memphis.
MR. GARRISON: That's all.
MR. PEPPER: Nothing further,
Your Honor.
THE COURT: All right. Now you
may stand down.
THE WITNESS: Can I really leave
this time?
(Witness excused.)
MR. PEPPER: Your Honor,
plaintiffs have an apparently lengthy video
deposition -- video/audio deposition, and it
probably would be appropriate to begin that
after lunch.
THE COURT: Okay.
MR. PEPPER: Unless you want us
to -- I estimate it will take 30, 35, maybe
40 minutes.
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 832
THE COURT: That's the length of
the deposition?
MR. PEPPER: That's the length
of the -- it was a telephonic/audio
deposition, yes.
THE COURT: Okay. If that's
what it's going to be, 35 or 40 minutes -- is
that about right? It's going to take about
35 or 40 minutes. All right.
MR. PEPPER: Go ahead? Your
Honor, the deposition is of a Yorkshireman --
it's an Englishman who lives in Yorkshire --
west Yorkshire to be exact. And since the
speech is not always readily recognizable and
distinct as possible, the plaintiffs have
prepared a transcribed copy for each member
of the jury and for the Court. With your
permission, we would like to have these
passed out.
MR. GARRISON: Your Honor, I
have no objection. I requested the
deposition, in fact.
THE COURT: All right. Are
there any members of the press present?
MR. PEPPER: Sorry. Excuse me.
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 833
THE COURT: I was asking if
there were any members of the press present.
I was going to let them have one. All
right.
(They following is a transcript
of the video deposition of Mr. Sidney J.
Carthew that was played in open court.)
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 834
VIDEOGRAPHER: This is the
videotaped deposition of Mr. Sidney J.
Carthew. It's being taken by the plaintiffs
in the matter of King versus Jowers in the
Circuit Court of Tennessee for the Thirtieth
Judicial District at Memphis.
Mr. Carthew is with us via
telephone. It's being held in the offices of
Daniel, Dillinger, Dominski in Memphis,
Tennessee on November 5, 1999, beginning at
approximately 2:39 p.m.
The court reporter is Kristin
Peterson with the firm of Daniel, Dillinger,
Dominski in Memphis. The videotape
specialist is Ted Schurch with the Data
Company in Memphis.
Will counsel now please introduce
themselves.
DR. PEPPER: William Pepper for
the plaintiffs in this action.
MR. GARRISON: Lewis Garrison
for defendant, Jowers.
VIDEOGRAPHER: Do you have any
announcements or stipulations you'd like to
put on the record?
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 835
DR. PEPPER: None for the
plaintiffs.
MR. GARRISON: None for the
defendant.
VIDEOGRAPHER: If the reporter
will please swear in the witness, we'll go on
the record.
SIDNEY J. CARTHEW,
Having been first duly sworn, was examined
and testified as follows:
DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY DR. PEPPER:
Q. Sid?
A. Is that for me?
Q. Yeah. That's for you, Sid.
A. Yeah, I do.
Q. Okay. Sid --
A. The sound isn't too good, but carry
on.
Q. Okay. If you have trouble hearing
any of the questions, please ask, and I'll --
I will repeat them.
A. Okay.
Q. Sid, you were a merchant seaman in
the British Merchant Navy; is that --
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 836
A. Yes.
Q. -- that right?
A. Yes.
Q. And do you recall the years that you
were a merchant seaman?
A. From 1956 until 1973.
Q. Right. And where would you go?
Where would your duties and your sailing
obligations take you as a seaman during that
period of time?
A. All over. All over the world.
Q. Right. Did you sail the North
Atlantic route frequently?
A. Yes, quite often.
Q. Right. Now --
A. Pardon?
Q. That's okay. That's fine. Now --
A. Yeah.
Q. -- do you recall, Sid, in -- in 1967
sailing from Liverpool to Montreal?
A. Yes.
Q. I don't expect you, naturally, to
remember the name of the ship because you
sailed on many different ships, didn't you?
A. It was a ship -- Canadian Pacific
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 837
Line. I think it was the Empress of
Britain. There was two ships that were
exactly the same and on the same run, and it
was the Empress of England, Empress of
Britain. They were two weeks apart in
sailing dates.
Q. Right. Now, when you -- when you
sailed from Liverpool to Montreal and landed
in Montreal, how long would you stay in that
city, and how long in that -- well, let me
rephrase that. How long did you stay in that
city on that -- on that particular time?
A. One week.
Q. You stayed there for one week?
A. On every trip, it's one week in
Montreal, one week at sea, and then one week
in Liverpool.
Q. Right.
A. But it's a week in Liverpool, one
week at sea, one week staying in Montreal,
and then, again, one week at sea. So it's
one month all total -- that's sailing and
docking.
Q. Right. Okay. Now, when you stayed
in Montreal, was there a particular bar or
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 838
restaurant that you frequented on a regular
basis?
A. Yes. The Neptune Bar and also the
Seaman's Mission on the same street. I think
they call it Commerce Street.
Q. Was it West --
A. It was near the ship.
Q. Yeah, West Commissioners.
A. It was right near the port where we
docked. And that was the first bar we got to
was the Neptune Bar. It was the one that
most seamen frequented.
Q. Right. Did you -- were you known to
people who regularly frequented the bar?
A. Only two other seamen. Two other
seamen -- seamen that frequently went in
Montreal as their home port. One or two of
them knew me, but mostly it was strangers.
Q. Right.
A. At the time that we're talking about,
there was a lot of activity going on because
I think there was some kind of world games
there because there was an awful lot of
people in and around Montreal in general.
Q. Around this point in time?
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 839
A. Yes.
Q. That was the year of the
International Youth Festival. It was -- it
was held in Montreal in the late summer,
early autumn of 1967. Could that have been
the event you are talking about?
A. Well, I don't know if that was it,
but -- but the -- the all of Montreal was a
height of activity with these international
games.
Q. Right. Okay.
A. The ship may have got in during the
games, so the -- I mean, international games
would be of little importance to a merchant
seaman, I'm afraid.
Q. Right. Sid, where did you sleep in
the evenings after you left the Neptune Bar?
A. Well, I mean, if you had any female
company, you would obviously stay ashore, but
most nights -- I would say that most nights,
back on the ship.
Q. Right. Now, toward the end of this
stay in Montreal, did you meet a fellow in
the bar, in the Neptune Bar, whom we have
come to know as Raul?
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 840
A. Yes. Yes.
Q. Could you describe that encounter,
Sid.
A. What? The conversation?
Q. Well, yeah, how you met him. Just
right from the beginning, how it all
started.
A. Well, at first, I -- I met a person
who I now think was James Earl Ray because
they were both standing at the bar together,
and the shorter one of the two, he was very
quietly spoken, and he asked me about going
on a ship to possibly work his passage.
And I explained to him that he
couldn't possibly do that in this modern day
and age -- even though I'm talking about
nearly thirty years ago, twenty-odd years
ago -- the -- the situation -- that he wasn't
able to do that, and I explained it to him.
And then he said that he would like
to get hold of a seaman's discharge book, and
I explained to him again that the discharge
books -- when you sign on the ship in your
home fort, you hand the discharge book into
the ship. So you don't get it back until you
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 841
return to the port.
And the books that he had seen
previously, obviously from other seamen, were
identity books, and I told him that there are
fingerprints -- they put your fingerprints
in, so if anybody was to -- if they wanted
to, they could try it by changing a
photograph. He may be able to do that, but
he couldn't change the fingerprints.
So that was the end of that
conversation. He went back to the bar, and,
in fact, I thought he was an off-duty bar
tender because he was dressed in a white
shirt, black tie. He spoke to the taller
one, who was slightly of a Spanish look, but
he didn't have black hair. He had brown
hair, darkish brown hair. He came over and
introduced himself to me and a couple of
friends that I was with.
Q. Now, Sid, let me just interrupt you
here. You think the first conversation you
had may well have been with James Earl Ray?
A. It may well have been, but I never
even saw any photographs, pictures on
television of him. It was only when I saw
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 842
him on the mock trial that was on television
that I recognized it then that he -- he was a
bit fatter then obviously. I mean, when I
seen him on television recently, the poor man
was a shadow of his former self I should
imagine.
Q. Right. Okay. So you think it may
have been James Earl Ray who was asking you
about getting some papers to get out of North
America and get on a ship?
A. Yeah.
Q. Okay. And -- and you had this
discussion with him. Then you went back and
sat down, and -- and this other man came over
with a brownish sort of hair; is that right?
A. Yeah.
Q. And --
A. He was asking me the same kind of
thing. I think he was just trying to get
confirmation for the first person, you know,
to try and figure out whether it was
possible, and I proved to him that it's been
done many, many times where seamen had took
other seamen, who maybe have jumped ship in
Montreal, and they took them back on the
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 843
ship, and they sailed back to Liverpool and
kept away from the Master Arms in -- on the
ship for a week.
It -- it was done on a more or less
regular basis, and I said that if this friend
of his -- he could take that chance. He
could go aboard the ship with -- make friends
with seamen, and especially if he had
relatives in England, I mean, they would've
helped him to get back to England, but he
didn't sound English, obviously, and if he
had done that, he would have needed it to
avoid ejection on the ship on certain days.
And this person introduced himself
to me, this Raul. He said, well, that's
seven chances of getting caught, and I said,
well, that's true. If you want to look at it
that way, it's seven chances of getting
caught. With a lot of hindsight, I didn't
know how -- why he needed to leave Montreal,
and, you know, the length he was willing to
go to to get away.
Q. I understand that.
A. Yeah.
Q. Sid, the man who introduced himself
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 844
to you, he introduced him -- what name did he
give you?
A. He actually gave me that name --
Raul.
Q. He introduced himself to you as Raul?
A. Yes. Yes.
Q. Right.
A. And it's only -- it's only when I was
watching the tape, the recording, of the mock
trial. I didn't look at it but a couple of
months after that maybe because I put it on
the shelf and forgot about it, and when I did
see it, part of it was -- my daughter had
taped something else, and when I put it in
the television, it came up on the court scene
where the prosecutor was ridiculing James
Earl Ray and saying that this Raul was a
figment of his imagination, and I called my
daughter in the room and said, look, no, this
isn't a figment or lie. I said, this poor
man is telling the truth, and that is when I
decided to try and locate you, which it took
me a long time to do.
Q. Yes, I understand that, and you
really persevered, Sid, and I --
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 845
A. I phoned the U.S. Embassy to ask them
who was defending James Earl Ray, but they
didn't tell me. They said they didn't know,
and I asked several things, you know. I was
being put to one department to another in the
Embassy, but they didn't know, however, so I
eventually found out by going to the
Citizen's Advice Bureau that put me in touch
with the bar, the lawyer's bar, and the rest
is, as they say, history.
Q. Yes.
A. Left it to you, and that was it.
Q. That's right. Thank you. Thank you
very much for your -- for your perseverance.
Now, Sid, what -- did you have other
conversation with this man, Raul, at that
point in time?
A. Yes. The lad that -- the lad that I
was talking to, and I met him over a period
of, what, say three years -- he sailed out of
Montreal. He sailed on Canadian ships, but
he was talking about the election with George
Wallace, and at -- at some point in the
conversation, things became a bit heated, you
know, as things do when you are talking
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 846
politics, and I think that this Raul thought
that we were Irish because the other lad
spoke slightly different to me.
I'm from Liverpool, but,
unfortunately, a lot of people can't make the
difference out between Liverpool and the
Irish because there is a big Irish population
in Liverpool, and I think he thought that we
were Irish Nationalists, you know, connected
to the -- possibly the IRA. He didn't say
that. He didn't say that, but the
conversation came down, and I -- at one point
I said, I believe in the rights of the people
to bear arms, and I'm sure that you'll
understand this being an American.
As I've said on many occasions that
the people -- I live in what the -- is
largely called a democracy, but the head of
our country is home elected, and if it ever
came to conflict, you know, the only people
that would have the right to bear arms in
defense of themselves would be criminals and
the police, and he said he would be able to
get some guns.
Q. He said he would be --
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 847
A. I remember it quite clearly because I
said to him, well, I don't want any of that
Second World War rubbish, you know, rusting
rubbish, and he said these are brand new,
Army issued, nine millimeter. He said they
were Browning nine millimeters, Army issued,
and they are new.
Q. Now, he --
A. And another thing why I remember
it -- because although it sounds funny, it
wasn't. He said to me, how many would you
want, and I said four. And he said, how, you
know, how are you going to get them on the
ship, and I said that I would get them on the
ship, just put them in a shopping bag or even
in the waistband of mu trousers and take
them, and he said, four, what do you -- four,
what do you mean by four. I said four guns.
He wanted to sell me four boxes of guns.
He said that he -- once he knew that
I would have only take -- took four, he was
very annoyed, and he said that there was a
Master Sergeant in the Army -- he wanted his
cut out of this, you know, and it wouldn't be
worth his while to deal in such a small
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 848
number, and that was the end of that
conversation, and he went back to the bar.
Q. Right. Now, Sid, did you have
this -- all this conversation with him in
this one evening, or was this over a period
of two evenings?
A. Of two -- two evenings, yeah.
Q. Yeah. And the conversation about the
guns, did that take place -- which evening
did that take place on?
A. I think that was the first -- the
first evening, yeah.
Q. So, you -- you and -- and --
A. It was at the same time when -- who I
now think -- but it may not have been James
Earl Ray, but, you know, it looks more to me
as if it was. That was the -- but that was
the same evening when he came over because he
made it his business to come over and talk to
me, and this friend of mine that was stuck at
the table as if he was taking charge of what
the first person was saying, you know. And
looking at it now from the point of view of
the mock trial on television, I can see now
why he wanted to prove to the first man that
DANIEL, DILLINGER, DOMINSKI, RICHBERGER, WEATHERFORD (901) 529-1999 849
it was no good going by ship.
Q. Well, because he might have had other
plans for -- for James?
A. Right, if he did.
Q. Right. So, Sid, after you had this
discussion with this man over two
evenings --
A. Yeah.
Q. -- |